Summit Research Repository (Simon Fraser University)

Gustafson, Kari

English

Endlessly Becoming Orc: A case for making our classrooms monstrous

Zhu, Yushu

Ye, Changdong

Fu, Qiang

State-embedded gentrification in China

Ontario Library Association Super Conference, February 1-5, 2022

Savage, Stephanie

Zerkee, Jennifer

Fostering a National Copyright 
Advocacy Conversation
Implications of the 2017 Copyright Act Review for copyright advocacy in Canada
Unless otherwise stated, this work is 
licensed under a CC BY-NC license
Who we are
Stephanie Savage
Scholarly Communications and 
Copyright Services Librarian, UBC
stephanie.savage@ubc.ca
@savbrarian
Jennifer Zerkee
Copyright Specialist,
Simon Fraser University
jstevens@sfu.ca
@jzerkee
Project site: osf.io/5zh8x/ 
Background
2017
Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology (INDU) announced 
Copyright Act review.
2018
INDU held 52 meetings, heard from 263 stakeholders, and received 192 briefs.
2019
INDU released its report and recommendations. Federal election.
2022
Next Copyright Act review expected to be launched.
The meetings
● 52 meetings total
○ 10 in camera (no public transcripts)
○ 3 partially in camera related to drafting the INDU Committee’s final report
● Our corpus: transcripts of 34 meetings with stakeholders plus 5 open mic 
sessions
○ Open mics: anyone interested could speak for 2 minutes - but no Q&A or interaction 
with INDU
Our current research question(s)
Q:   What picture do the Committee meetings paint as a whole, and what impact 
might these meetings have had on the committee and the outcomes of the review?
➔ Who/what stakeholder groups contributed to the meetings?
➔ Do specific communities present cohesive messages before the Committee?
➔ What kind of questions do committee members ask witnesses? What can we 
derive about committee members’ approach to copyright based on these 
questions?
High level impressions
● Lack of consistency and simplicity in library/education messaging, compared 
with creator groups
● Inability to satisfactorily and consistently respond to recurring questions or 
compelling data
● Lack of personal, relatable stories
Now what?
● Next Copyright Act review expected to launch by end of 2022
● Ongoing, consistent messaging from the publishing sector
● Our findings suggest more coordination is needed across the academic library 
sector
● How can individuals, institutions, and associations work together?
○ Mark Swartz, CARL
○ Victoria Owen, CFLA
Breakout discussions
Topic 1 - Compliance
Have there been instances of infringement among faculty/staff?
How are these handled/how would they be handled? 
Are there repercussions or do you leave it up to the courts if an 
infringement is identified?
Do you track use of fair dealing?
How do you ensure compliance in course pack preparation?
Compliance - examples
Mr. Brian Masse: If you catch somebody, 
though, a professor or instructor, and they're 
violating the Copyright Act, what is the 
punishment at your university? What are the 
consequences for such an activity? Do you 
have a measurement or do you leave it to the 
court system? 
Mr. Brian Masse: It's a simple thing. If you're 
working for a university and you photocopy a 
book and put it up on the Internet to share 
with your students, and you're caught doing 
that, what would be the result? Would it be 
case by case or would there be a specific 
action, like dismissal? 
Compliance - examples
Mr. Dane Lloyd: How are you able as an 
institution to regulate copyright infringement? 
For example, if I were to go to your library, and 
take a book out, and go to my own home, and 
scan a copy or photocopy something digitally 
or in hard copy, would you be able to prevent 
me from infringing on copyright?
Mr. Dane Lloyd: One thing you mentioned is 
that you don't have the capacity to monitor 
whether people are infringing on copyright, so 
you can't really say, “Well, we don't know if this 
is happening; therefore, we shouldn't do 
anything about it.” If you can't monitor it, how 
can you say that this isn't happening? The 
evidence we're hearing from the publishers is 
that this is happening.
Topic 2 - Library Spending (particularly on 
Canadian Content)
If Libraries are spending more and more on collection purchases, 
why are Canadian publishers and creators suffering?
Where/how are libraries spending their collection budgets? 
How much of library spending is going to Canadian content?
Has fair dealing impacted library spending on collections?
Library Spending - examples
Mr. Frank Baylis:  First, we heard about your 
increasing expenses vis-à-vis copyright. I think 
you said $370 million this year. By the same 
token and on the other side of the coin, we're 
hearing a lot from small Canadian publishers 
who are coming to us and saying they've seen a 
radical drop-off. Where's the money going? 
You're paying more and they're not getting 
any. They're not satisfied. What's happening?
Mr. Frank Baylis: This is your chance to talk to 
us, because they're going to be talking to us 
and telling us that you should be clamped 
down in fair dealing. We need to address their 
concerns. It's not working for them. Unless 
they're misleading me or whatever, they're 
saying that they're seeing the point of even 
bankruptcy. So we need to know.
Topic 3 - Collective Licensing
What is the value of an AC/Copibec license?  Why do you stay with them/why did you 
opt out; what might make you return? 
Wouldn’t liability protection be worth the cost of the AC license?
What are the differences between the AC license and library licenses? Explain how 
you might pay twice for something 
In 2012 universities said they would continue to pay for content; what happened?
Collective Licensing - examples
Mr. Matt Jeneroux: How would you assess the 
value and impact of collective licensing 
agreements proposed by Access Copyright 
and Copibec, since 2010, on students, 
teachers, and copyright holders?
Mr. Dane Lloyd: However, you agree that there is 
no way you can actually monitor and regulate 
copyright infringement. I guess my follow-up 
question is this. To ensure that authors and 
publishers are compensated for their work, even 
for your safety legally, wouldn't collective 
licensing be the best means to protect institutions 
such as yours from accusations of being conduits 
for copyright infringement, and also to 
compensate creators, to ensure that they're fairly 
compensated for their works?
Topic 4 - Fair Dealing
How is “fairness” determined; what amount is it fair to copy?
What is the ongoing value of education as a fair dealing purpose?
What (if any) relationship is there between the inclusion of education as 
a fair dealing purpose and the reduction in creator incomes in Canada?
Is the difference in cost to students with/without fair dealing 
measurable?
Fair Dealing - examples
Mr. Frank Baylis:  In that sense, in the end it comes 
down to what's fair: I have written a book, and 
you're using a chapter of the book. If there are 
only two chapters in the book, you're using 50%. If 
there are 10, chapters you're using 10%. I'll ask 
both of you, but starting with you, Ms. Kiddell, 
what in your world view would be fair dealing in, 
say, taking a book and taking a section of the book 
and not paying for it? What would be fair in your 
world view and in the view of the students?
Mr. Frank Baylis: Why are you trying to defend 
your fair dealing if it doesn't have an impact for 
you? I need to understand that. If it doesn't have a 
financial impact, why do you need to defend it?
Why are so many people coming here to defend it 
and at the same time saying it has no financial 
impact? There's a reason that you want to defend 
it. You just said tens of millions. Can you make that 
link?
Fair Dealing - examples
Mr. Matt Jeneroux: There's a copyright law expert 
from Osgoode, Professor Vaver. He expressed a 
concern that clarity in terms of the exact meaning 
of fair dealing has been left up to the courts, given 
the ambiguity of its definition in the Copyright 
Act.
Do you believe copyright should be updated to 
provide a clearer definition of fair dealing, or 
should the responsibility be left to the courts?
Mr. Dane Lloyd: What would be your comment on 
Mr. Lorimer's very interesting suggestion that we 
redefine education as an individual right? If 
professors want to access copyrighted material, 
that's fine. If students want to access copyrighted 
material under fair use, that's fine. But it would be 
limited so that an institution couldn't 
mass-produce materials for educational purposes. 
What would be your comment on that?


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