5,654 research outputs found
Letter from Hayao (Sam) Chuman to the American Friends Service Committee
No full textA letter from Hayao (Sam) Chuman to the American Friends Service Committee, donating a portion of his redress check from the U.S. government to the Committee.The Chuman (Hayao "Sam" and Toshiko) Papers documents the World War II experiences of Hayao "Sam" and Toshiko Chuman, who were Kibei Nisei born in the United States but grew up and completed school in Japan, and then returned to the U.S. prior to the war. It chronicles the Chuman's incarceration from the Santa Anita Assembly Center, through Jerome, Rohwer, Tule Lake camps, and the Santa Fe and Crystal City internment camps as well as their struggle for restoring their U.S. citizenships in the 1960s. The digital collection consists of mostly textual material, including correspondence, affidavits, incarceration camp records, lease agreements, financial documents, receipts, pamphlets, and booklets
Letter from Hayao (Sam) Chuman to Earl Warren and "Attorney General Clark"
No full textA letter from Hayao (Sam) Chuman to Chief Justice of the Supreme Court Earl Warren and "Attorney General Clark". The letter is a request to regain his citizenship after renouncing his U.S. citizenship and requesting repatriation to Japan during his time incarcerated in World War II.The Chuman (Hayao "Sam" and Toshiko) Papers documents the World War II experiences of Hayao "Sam" and Toshiko Chuman, who were Kibei Nisei born in the United States but grew up and completed school in Japan, and then returned to the U.S. prior to the war. It chronicles the Chuman's incarceration from the Santa Anita Assembly Center, through Jerome, Rohwer, Tule Lake camps, and the Santa Fe and Crystal City internment camps as well as their struggle for restoring their U.S. citizenships in the 1960s. The digital collection consists of mostly textual material, including correspondence, affidavits, incarceration camp records, lease agreements, financial documents, receipts, pamphlets, and booklets
Edmund Shuda Jr.
No full textEdmund Norton Jr. oral history interview as conducted by Dorothe Norton.
Edmund Shuda Jr. worked out of the Minneapolis Regional Office traveling throughout the region working in the Realty department. He retired as a GS 11 Realty Specialist.
Organization: FWS
Name: Edmund Shuda, Jr.
Years: 1967-1985
Program: Realty
Keywords: History, Biography, Employee (USFWS), Military, Realty, Appraisals, Public relations, Record keeping, Travel, Land buying, WaterfowlSubject/USFW Retiree: Edmund Shuda, Jr.
Tuesday, September 21, 2004 (#3092104)
Interviewed by: Dorothe Norton
D. Norton:
Thank you for being able to accommodate me a little earlier this morning than we had originally set. It's nice to see you again; you look about the same now as you did then.
Edmund Shuda:
I think so, I hope so!
D. Norton:
Well, the first thing we are going to do is some personal questions, like I'd like to know your birth place and date.
Edmund Shuda:
Well, I was born in Minneapolis in 1925.
D. Norton:
What day?
Edmund Shuda:
March 6th.
D. Norton:
March 6th, okay. And who were your parents, what were their names?
Edmund Shuda:
Edmond and Flora Shuda, I'm a junior.
D. Norton:
Yes, I see that. What were their jobs or their education?
Edmund Shuda:
My dad was a foreman down at General Outdoor Advertisement, he did sign painting. Mother, she was a housekeeper until the kids were in school, and then she started working at the Dale Power's Department Store.
D. Norton:
Oh my gosh, that's gone a long time now. Okay, so where did you spend all of your earlier years then, just in the Minneapolis area?
Edmund Shuda:
I spent most of it, up until World War II started, and then I joined the Marine Corps. Shortly after high school, it was "Goodbye" and they sent me on into the V-12 Program and to college for two years, and then officer's training, then over to China, and back and forth, then I got out for a while and then I re-enlisted and stayed in for 20 years.
D. Norton:
What high school did you graduate from?
Edmund Shuda:
DeLaSalle.
D. Norton:
DeLaSalle, okay.
Edmund Shuda:
That's down on Nicollet Island.
D. Norton:
And when did you graduate, in 1940?
Edmund Shuda:
In 1943.
D. Norton:
In 1943, okay, and you didn't go to college then, you just went into the Marine Corps.
Edmund Shuda:
Yes, and then they sent me to college.
D. Norton:
Well, that's good.
Edmund Shuda:
Yeah, I got some college out of that.
D. Norton:
Well, while you were still in childhood, did you ever have jobs while you were still in high school?
Edmund Shuda:
Well, I set pins in the bowling alley, had a paper route, the usual things that kids do.
D. Norton:
Yeah, okay. Did you ever go hunting or fishing with your dad or with anybody?
Edmund Shuda:
Oh yeah, we went fishing with my dad and my uncle up to the lakes once in a while, and we would take a week of vacation, he'd take a week of vacation and we'd go up to northern Minnesota and fly fishing, that sort of stuff.
D. Norton:
That was fun, huh?
Edmund Shuda:
Yeah, a long time ago.
D. Norton:
Okay. So you went into the U.S. Marine Corps, how many years did you serve?
Edmund Shuda:
21 years, 4 months, and 1 day.
D. Norton:
Oh, my gosh, wow! So what were your duty stations, where did you start?
Edmund Shuda:
Well, first I went to Northwestern University in Evansville, Indiana, then Oberlin in Oberlin, Ohio, and then to Parris Island, to Quantico, back to Camp Lejeune, then I went up to Schenectady, New York, Naval Supply Depot for security, then to Quantico for Air Observer School, then to China, and then back. I got out for about 2 months, got back in and went to Burlington, Washington, and then to Parris Island for Recruiter's School, back to Minneapolis for recruiting duty, then after that I left and went to Camp Pendleton, to Korea, and back. I skipped Camp Lejeune once in there, I think. Anyway, I retired in Lexington, Kentucky from the Marine Corps.
D. Norton:
Okay. Did you get any decorations for your duty?
Edmund Shuda:
No, no.
D. Norton:
So, your job was just in supply?
Edmund Shuda:
No, I was a First Sergeant, ended up as a First Sergeant, Infantryman, and First Sergeant.
D. Norton:
Okay. So, did your military service relate in any way to your employment with the Fish and Wildlife Service?
Edmund Shuda:
No, none whatsoever.
D. Norton:
Okay. So, then when you got out of the Marines, then you went to school at the...
Edmund Shuda:
When I got out of the Marine Corps, I tried to get a job and I was told I was too old down at the police department, I was too old. Then I took an entrance exam and I worked almost three years for the Post Office. Then I took the Federal Service Entrance Exam, and got called up to the Fish and Wildlife Service and hired in realty.
D. Norton:
Where had you gone to college, though, after you got out of the Marines?
Edmund Shuda:
I didn't.
D. Norton:
Oh, you didn't?
Edmund Shuda:
No, I never finished.
D. Norton:
Okay.
Edmund Shuda:
I was too old.
D. Norton:
You were too old? Okay, so you started with the Fish and Wildlife Service in about 19..?
Edmund Shuda:
1964. Well, wait a minute, in '64 I retired. It was 1967.
D. Norton:
Okay. Well, before we get into that, I want to know when and where and how you met your wife.
Edmund Shuda:
I was on recruiting duty in Minneapolis.
D. Norton:
Oh, how fortunate for you!
Edmund Shuda:
And I went up, she worked up at the (unclear) Bank, and I used to go up there in my dress blues afterwards and take care of it, and I met her there.
D. Norton:
Oh, good. So, when and where did you get married?
Edmund Shuda:
We got married in Minneapolis in 1953.
D. Norton:
Oh, you just had your 50th anniversary, 51st now! That's good. So, do you have any children?
Edmund Shuda:
I got three.
D. Norton:
Okay, and what are their names?
Edmund Shuda:
Mike is the oldest, Cathy is in the middle, and Dan is the youngest.
D. Norton:
Okay, and what are they doing now?
Edmund Shuda:
Mike is a surveyor for the state of Minnesota, Cathy is in, I don't know just what position now, she is now at the Crown Plaza in Eagan, and Dan works for Honeywell.
D. Norton:
Oh, okay. So, now we'll start with, so you started with the Fish and Wildlife Service in 1967, and that was because you had taken the test and passed.
Edmund Shuda:
I was called, yeah.
D. Norton:
You were referred to the Fish and Wildlife Service.
Edmund Shuda:
Yes, I had a lot of calls after taking the test for various and sundry types of things, but I didn't want to move to St. Louis or Chicago, or some of those other high class towns.
D. Norton:
Well, good. Okay. So, your duty stations then were always in the regional office in Minneapolis?
Edmund Shuda:
Yes, I always worked out of the regional office.
D. Norton:
Of course, you traveled a lot throughout the region, I'm sure.
Edmund Shuda:
Oh, yeah.
D. Norton:
So, what did you feel that the pay and benefits were like when you came to work for them?
Edmund Shuda:
1,900 a year! So, you know, things have changed.
D. Norton:
Oh, yes, quite a bit, yeah. Okay. Did you have promotion opportunities then once you started with Fish and Wildlife?
Edmund Shuda:
Oh, yes, I started as a GS5. When I was hired, my position description was Legal Instrument Examiner Realty, so I said I was the first liar they ever had!
D. Norton:
Did you socialize with any of the people that you worked with?
Edmund Shuda:
Not too much. We had a carpool, Hartman and myself, and Jim Monnie, Don Gray. I was the furthest out so I picked them up, and went in back and forth, that way we had a parking space in the Buzza Building!
D. Norton:
Yeah, that was the world's worst place to park. That's when I started, was in the Buzza Building, too.
Edmund Shuda:
That was fun.
D. Norton:
Sometimes we had to walk two blocks! So did you ever get involved in any of the recreation that they did, like the ball teams or the golf?
Edmund Shuda:
No, I wasn't a golfer, I wasn't really a jock.
D. Norton:
So, did your career have any effect on your family?
Edmund Shuda:
Not really.
D. Norton:
Okay, that's good. If it did, I hope it was a positive, anyway. So you left the service when you were eligible to retire?
Edmund Shuda:
I retired and I waited until, it was something about her Medicare/medical from her work and I retired in 1985.
D. Norton:
And what grade and title were you then?
Edmund Shuda:
I was a Realty Specialist, GS11.
D. Norton:
Good. So, what kind of training did you receive for your jobs when you came over to Fish and Wildlife Service?
Edmund Shuda:
Well, I went out in the field and did a lot, I went out with appraisers in the field, they sent me to Farm Manager Rural Appraiser's School, and the one for Realty Specialist Appraisal at MIA Appraisal School in Chicago.
D. Norton:
Oh, okay.
Edmund Shuda:
So, you get quite a bit of training.
D. Norton:
That's good.
Edmund Shuda:
You had your symposiums or seminars, you had yearly or a couple of times a year in various and sundry places.
D. Norton:
Well, that's good that they did give you training.
Edmund Shuda:
Oh yeah, they give you training.
D. Norton:
So, what hours did you work? When you were at the regional office of course were usual, but how about when you were in the field?
Edmund Shuda:
When you go out and you do an appraisal, trying to contact people to get your easements or buy the land, you met them on their time; it might be in the evening or it might be during the day. Of course with rural, it's pretty much during the day, but there are a few times you had to go out and contact them at night.
D. Norton:
Okay. So, what tools and instruments did you use?
Edmund Shuda:
Pens, pencils, aerial photos.
D. Norton:
Instruments, any surveying?
Edmund Shuda:
No, no surveying instruments.
D. Norton:
Okay.
Edmund Shuda:
You might use a compass and pace, an approximate and you put a tie or a marker there on what you’re working on. The surveyors would then survey it.
D. Norton:
Okay. Did you witness any new service inventions while you were working?
Edmund Shuda:
I wouldn't say they were inventions, but the surveyors got more into the use of the computer, and even there in the office they became more and more linking the field offices with the regional office with computers. Not like it is now, but they were working at it and developing. In fact, I think (unclear) Christenson was working on the program they use, and he developed the appraisal program they used.
D. Norton:
That's good. Does he still work there?
Edmund Shuda:
He retired in that same bunch you went out with.
D. Norton:
(Unclear) Christenson, huh?
Edmund Shuda:
That's what I heard.
D. Norton:
Do you know where he is now?
Edmund Shuda:
No, I don't. He was from Michigan, too.
D. Norton:
Okay, I will just write him down here and see if I can find him. I tell you, Law Enforcement helps. See, sometimes they can find people if they're not on the list already.
Edmund Shuda:
Yeah. How about Bill Russman?
D. Norton:
Who? Oh yes, out in Litchfield. Yes, I did him and Trebesch out there, too.
Edmund Shuda:
I don't know if Wanda came back and finished out her time with the service or not. I know she came in for Rosemary Little's retirement, I think it was.
D. Norton:
Oh, Rosemary Little, I've not been able to reach, she is quite sick.
Edmund Shuda:
Yes, I know she was, she had arthritis so bad, and her shoulder was bad. She used to be quite an act at square dancing.
D. Norton:
Um hmm, I know she did, yeah. I sent much to her, too, and I'm sure if any of her offspring are taking care of her they would open those or she would open them. I've asked them to just please give me a call. Last time I talked to her was over a year ago, and she told me then that she wasn't doing very well. Okay. So did you ever work with any animals when you were out in the field?
Edmund Shuda:
No, no animals.
D. Norton:
Well, what support do you think we received locally, regionally, federally? You know, how did the public react to land that we may have wanted to buy from them?
Edmund Shuda:
Some were against it, especially when we would buy out on these farm countries, a lot of them were not really happy with it. They liked the idea that we are going to save it, but they didn't like the idea we're taking it off the tax rolls. We sat at many a town hall meeting where they heard it; we did get them through. We bought one where they didn't want her to sell it to the Fish and Wildlife Service. She said, "Okay, I won't sell it to them, you buy it." But nobody offered to buy it.
D. Norton:
So, do you think the agency-community relations were good then?
Edmund Shuda:
So-so, some relations were good.
D. Norton:
Did they usually put it like little notices in a paper in these towns when you were coming out, or?
Edmund Shuda:
No.
D. Norton:
Nothing like that, it was just all done person to person?
Edmund Shuda:
Well, we had leads that the field people had got. Well, see this guy, he'd like to get an easement here, we would like to buy that, and we've talked to him, you go talk to him to make the appraisal. We would have the appraisal approved and make the offer. D. Norton:
So, what projects were you ever involved in, any special?
Edmund Shuda:
I was somewhat involved on the beginning of the Minnesota Valley National Wildlife Association.
D. Norton:
Oh, that's good.
Edmund Shuda:
Primarily, I ended up the last several years in the regional office keeping the records, acquisition records, (unclear) of all the refuges in the region, the waterfowl production area. We owned easements, we owned, quite a project in records.
D. Norton:
Okay. Any major issues that you had to deal with?
Edmund Shuda:
No, I didn't deal with any, I wasn't in that level.
D. Norton:
Okay. Did you ever feel that there was a major impediment to your job or to your career?
Edmund Shuda:
The impediment was getting through the state approval to buy the land; you had to go to the commission with Skip Humphrey in charge of it.
D. Norton:
So who were your supervisors, like when you started, who was your supervisor?
Edmund Shuda:
Bob Jorgenson.
D. Norton:
Bob Jorgenson!
Edmund Shuda:
Yes, Bob Jorgenson was the head of Realty, and I worked for Al Franz, I was under Al Franz, and Bill Swanson was in there, and Tom Follrath, Bill Cushman. I didn't work too much with Cushman, but he was there. I did some paperwork on Sherburne and Muscatatuck. Mel Lund was more or less my boss under Franz and Harrison.
D. Norton:
Yes, I think he's on the list, I think he's retired now, too. Edmund Shuda:
Who, Lund?
D. Norton:
Yes.
Edmund Shuda:
He should be.
D. Norton:
Yes, I'm sure he is. So, were there any individuals you feel help shape your career with Fish and Wildlife?
Edmund Shuda:
I think it was Don Gray, who's passed away; he helped me get into keeping up the records. Eileen Hegdal, she was just a record keeper, I think she helped.
D. Norton:
(unclear).
Edmund Shuda:
Eileen Hegdal, oh, she passed away a long time ago.
D. Norton:
Okay, oh, I think I remember who she was.
Edmund Shuda:
She was the one they stole her purse and they found it in the stairwell, and she had all kinds of trouble because they were using her driver's license, and the woman who was using it didn't even look like the picture on the driver's license! She was an amazing lady.
D. Norton:
So, do you remember now who was the President or Secretary of Interior or Fish and Wildlife Regional Director when you started?
Edmund Shuda:
I can remember because I remember they gave him a shotgun when he retired down at the Bussa Building.
D. Norton:
How about Burwell?
Edmund Shuda:
Burwell. He was the head, and the guy came up from Texas. D. Norton:
Travis Roberts?
Edmund Shuda:
No, before him. Heavy set, round face, glasses.
D. Norton:
Oh, Sam Jorgenson.
Edmund Shuda:
Sam was up there, but not him. Well, I can't remember his name. Travis Roberts, and Galen, and the other one, oh I can't remember, he was right before Buterbaugh.
D. Norton:
I don't know either, I'm going to try and get these. You know, they used to have a picture of all the regional directors up there on the wall, but they've taken them down. They've done quite a bit of remodeling and decorating, it's very, very nice. I talked with the regional director's secretary and she said they're all down in storage. So, I'm going to ask Donna Stanek, who is the one I refer to when I bring things in. See if they couldn't go down and just make a list of who they were and the years so I have that, because it's difficult to remember. I remember Bob (unclear) was RD when I started, and I had a lot of respect for that man, I thought he was a very good Regional Director.
Edmund Shuda:
He was very quiet, but he got the job done.
D. Norton:
Art Hughlett.
Edmund Shuda:
Yes, Art Hughlett was there, I worked for him quite a bit.
D. Norton:
Or Walt Shaffer, do you remember Walt Shaffer? I'm sure he has passed away by now.
Edmund Shuda:
And what the heck was his name? We had to send all of our Wetland Acquisitions through him. He wore that cap with the earflaps hanging out like that, and his ears held it up!
D. Norton:
I can't remember either who that would have been.
Edmund Shuda:
I can't think of his name, then the other one was... I can't think of his name but he played a tuba, he got that tuba...
D. Norton:
Bill (unclear)
Edmund Shuda:
How did you guess?
D. Norton:
Because when you said that he still plays and he is in a band that is Dixieland type, and he still drives a Volkswagon and has the tuba in the back seat.
D. Norton:
Who do you think are the individuals who helped shape the Service into what it is today?
Edmund Shuda:
That was pretty much above my level working. But, you know you had like Ed Crozier and (unclear), I can't remember the third guy...
D. Norton:
Charlie Johnson.
Edmund Shuda:
Yes, (unclear) Minnesota. They shaped all the background work that goes into developing that; that was a lot of work.
D. Norton:
Yes, I thought it was.
Edmund Shuda:
And Sherburne and Muscatatuck, and (unclear)
D. Norton:
Yes. He's passed away.
Edmund Shuda:
There was a lot of work, and they really did a lot to shape the little bit I know of what was going on.
D. Norton:
That's good.
Edmund Shuda:
John Winship and... D. Norton:
Do you think the changes in the administration affected the work that we were expected to do?
Edmund Shuda:
I think so, because they all had different concepts of where the Fish and Wildlife Service was supposed to go. You know, it's just like when I started, you had the Bureau Sports of Wildlife and the Bureau of Commercial Fisheries, and then they became one. So yes, all administrations are going to change into their idea of what they want done. Whether it's good or bad, I'm not going to say.
D. Norton:
Well, there's nothing we can do about it at all anyway.
Edmund Shuda:
Yeah, they're long gone. Just so it keeps those little deposits every month.
D. Norton:
I know that so many people, when they see me are, "Oh Dorothy, are you ever lucky you quit when you did." And I would say, "Why?" Well, this, this, this....
Edmund Shuda:
I had the same thing back then.
D. Norton:
Yes, I know it. I know that for many years I had to beg to be sure we'd come out not in the red. The refuges kind of bailed us out all the time when we needed help and that was great because Ede Donovan was my mentor. But it's a lot of different now, the agencies are being better funded and they have better equipment and the cases have differed quite a bit now, and refuges too, I'm sure there's a lot of changes there.
Edmund Shuda:
When I was working we had to do the same thing on record keeping; we had to put so many hours on keeping the records for fisheries, we needed this money, refuges this money, to help balance the books. It wasn't a heck of a lot, but it was something that had to be done.
D. Norton:
Yes, that's for sure. What was the high point of your career with Fish and Wildlife Service? Special award, or....?
Edmund Shuda:
I got an award, working with Al Ludden; he and I got an award for a workbook for people who are realty people, appraisers and that. If you have a question and look up what the possible answer is, we worked up a workbook referring to all of the different directives that had come out at one time or another, legal opinions or what have you, that had the answer for that, and I got a nice award for that.
D. Norton:
Did you ever have a low point in your career?
Edmund Shuda:
No, not really a low point.
D. Norton:
That's good.
Edmund Shuda:
Sometimes I wasn't happy with the way things were going, but.
D. Norton:
Did you ever have a dangerous or frightening experience like when you were out in the field at all?
Edmund Shuda:
No.
D. Norton:
That's good.
Edmund Shuda:
It's not frightening, but you get out there in the winter time out there, and nobody's living on that road, and the land you want to check is down a half mile or three quarters of a mile down, you've got to wade through the snow to get down and see it! That gets a little bit...
D. Norton:
Well, that's a little frightening.
Edmund Shuda:
That's weird, but....
D. Norton:
Not really frightening.
Edmund Shuda:
I was a lot younger then too, that's th
Joanne Meadows
No full textJoanne Meadows oral history interview as conducted by Dorothe Norton.
Ms. Meadows started with the Fish and Wildlife Service as a clerk/typist/secretary. She would work for the Bureau of Sport Fisheries from 1966 to 1970 before leaving to take care of her family. She would return as a GS 4, and eventually retiring as a GS 12 and would work for Federal Aid and Ecological Services.
Organization: FWS
Name: Joanne Meadows
Years:
Program: Ecological Services
Keywords: Biography, Employees (USFWS), History, Budgets, Conservation, Personnel1
Oral History Cover Sheet
Name: Joanne Meadows
Date of Interview: August 5, 2005
Location of Interview: Unknown
Interviewer: Dorothe Norton
Approximate years worked for Fish and Wildlife Service: 10+
Offices and Field Stations Worked: Bureau of Sports Fisheries and Wildlife
Positions Held: Secretary
Most Important Projects: Helped organize various administrative workshops
Colleagues and Mentors: Leonard Springer, Bill Aultfather, Wes James, Larry Sisk, Bill Anderson
Most Important Issues: None
Brief Summary of Interview: Born in Noonan, North Dakota on July 12, 1941. Joanne Meadows lived on a farm, went to grade school in Morrison and high school in Columbus graduating in 1959. Taking courses in Minot Business College she graduated and receiving her certificate applied as a secretary for her first government job at the Minot Air Force Base. Working there she married and had two kids, then applied to The Bureau of Sports Fisheries and Wildlife working as a secretary from 1966 until she retired in 1970. To return in 1983 to Federal Aid then moving to Ecological Services helping organize various Administrative Workshops until retirement.
2
National Heritage Team of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Oral History Program
Subject/USFW Retiree: Joanne Meadows
Date: August 5, 2005
Interviewed by: Dorothe Norton
Dorothe Norton:
Today is Friday, August 5, 2005. This interview will be with Joanne Meadows and Dorothe Norton. Okay, so Joanne the first thing that I want to know is your birthplace and the date.
Joanne Meadows:
I was born in Noonan, North Dakota on July 12, 1941.
Dorothe Norton:
What were your parent's names?
Joanne Meadows:
Coyer and Joseph Dalebout.
Dorothe Norton:
What were their jobs and their educations?
Joanne Meadows:
My mother originally was a schoolteacher for a few years, then she married my father and they lived on a farm all their life.
Dorothe Norton:
Where did you spend you early years then, in Noonan?
Joanne Meadows:
No, in the next town over, which was Columbus, and we lived on a farm. I went to grade school in Morrison and high school in Columbus. I then moved from Columbus after I graduated, to Minot.
Dorothe Norton:
Wow, you traveled around! Okay, so how did you spend your early years, what did you do? Did you have any hobbies or special events that you liked?
Joanne Meadows:
When I was a kid we lived on a farm, we made mud pies and, I don't know, just more creative things. We really didn't have television until later years, so we didn't have that. We had a couple of old horses on the farm, and we would try to ride them. I read a lot, listened to the radio. In high school I was in the bands, so I was in a lot of band activities and different associations connected with schools. So that kept me busy.
3
Dorothe Norton:
What did you play?
Joanne Meadows:
The clarinet; do you remember Artie Shaw and Benny Goodman?
Dorothe Norton:
Yes.
Joanne Meadows:
I sounded just like them.
Dorothe Norton:
Well that's good! Did you ever have a job as a child before you got out of high school?
Joanne Meadows:
Since I was the oldest in my family I had to work for my dad a lot, doing chores like shoveling grain and hauling hay.
Dorothe Norton:
Oh wow, that's good. Did you ever hunt or fish?
Joanne Meadows:
In North Dakota we don't have any fish, or there weren't any back then. And my dad was never into hunting, so I never got into hunting.
Dorothe Norton:
What high school did you go to?
Joanne Meadows:
Columbus, North Dakota.
Dorothe Norton:
What year did you graduate?
Joanne Meadows:
In 1959.
Dorothe Norton:
Did you go onto the university?
Joanne Meadows:
No, I decided to get rich quicker, so I took a course that was through Minot Business College, and I believe it was about an 18 month course. And then after I graduated from 4
there, or got my little certificate, I went to work for my first government job at the Minot Air Force Base.
Dorothe Norton:
So you never did go to college then?
Joanne Meadows:
No, not your true four year college, it was called business college.
Dorothe Norton:
Before you started at the Air Force Base?
Joanne Meadows:
Yes.
Dorothe Norton:
Right after you graduated then, for two years?
Joanne Meadows:
I believe it was a year and a half.
Dorothe Norton:
Were you ever in the military service?
Joanne Meadows:
No.
Dorothe Norton:
But I see you were married at one time, so can you tell me how, and where, and when you met your husband?
Joanne Meadows:
I met an Air Force sergeant at the Minot Air Force Base while I was working there, and we ended up getting married. We got married in 1963.
Dorothe Norton:
In Minot?
Joanne Meadows:
Yes.
Dorothe Norton:
Do you have children?
Joanne Meadows:
I have two children, a son and a daughter. 5
Dorothe Norton:
And their names and their educations?
Joanne Meadows:
My son's name is Greg, and he went to the University of Minnesota and graduated. My daughter, Robin, graduated from the Columbus College of Art and Design in Columbus, Ohio.
Dorothe Norton:
Oh, in Columbus, Ohio! And what are they doing now?
Joanne Meadows:
My son works with American Express in Minneapolis, and my daughter is working in graphics at the University of Minnesota.
Dorothe Norton:
Very good, okay. That takes care of the personal questions that I have for you. Now, when you were working for the Air Force, did you ever feel that you wanted to work for the Fish and Wildlife Service?
Joanne Meadows:
Back then I'd never heard of Fish and Wildlife Service.
Dorothe Norton:
Where did you go then after you had been working for the Air Force Base there in Minot?
Joanne Meadows:
We moved to Duluth for a short stint until my husband got out of the Air Force, we moved back to Minot and then I resumed working with the military. And then a couple of years later we moved to Minneapolis so that my husband could pursue a career in something, so he ended up going to the university.
Dorothe Norton:
You didn't work then for a few years?
Joanne Meadows:
While he was going to the "U" then I did start my first job, or first job in Minneapolis with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. Well, back then it was called the Bureau of...
Dorothe Norton:
Sport Fisheries and Wildlife.
Joanne Meadows:
Right, on Lake Street. 6
Dorothe Norton:
When did you start?
Joanne Meadows:
I started there in 1966, and quit in 1970.
Dorothe Norton:
And you started then as a clerk typist?
Joanne Meadows:
Yes, I believe it was clerk typist or secretary, one or the other, I think I was about a GS-4.
Dorothe Norton:
And so then when you left there where did you go?
Joanne Meadows:
Then in 1970 I retired, and we moved to the north side of town and I took care of the family and had babies.
Dorothe Norton:
And so then did you come back to work for the Fish and Wildlife Service?
Joanne Meadows:
Then in 1983 I came back to Fish and Wildlife after the kids were grown somewhat. I decided that I needed a job because I was going to get a divorce.
Dorothe Norton:
Oh, okay, but you did come back to the Fish and Wildlife Service?
Joanne Meadows:
Yes.
Dorothe Norton:
And what grade and position were you in then?
Joanne Meadows:
I believe I came back as a GS-4 for a little while, and then shortly after that I got a GS-5.
Dorothe Norton:
What division were you with then?
Joanne Meadows:
I started a temporary for a few weeks in Federal Aid, and then I went over to Ecological Services.
7
Dorothe Norton:
What attracted you to the Fish and Wildlife Service?
Joanne Meadows:
It was the closest... Well, I don't know, there wasn't an attraction. It was that at the time I had my resumes out, the Buzza Building on Lake Street was the closest government agency nearest the apartment we lived in. And I guess I was fortunate, they hired me, and they were the first and only government office I went to with my resume.
Dorothe Norton:
What did you think the pay and benefits were like?
Joanne Meadows:
Well, back then they all were pretty good, and I guess I knew that from prior experience back in the '60's that the benefits were good.
Dorothe Norton:
Did you have promotion opportunities?
Joanne Meadows:
Yes, through the years I did.
Dorothe Norton:
So you went then from starting as a 4 and then went to a 5?
Joanne Meadows:
And then a 6, then a 7, then a 9, 11, and a 12.
Dorothe Norton:
So when you retired you were a GS-12?
Joanne Meadows:
Yes.
Dorothe Norton:
Okay, and that's why you left the Service, because you were eligible to retire?
Joanne Meadows:
Right.
Dorothe Norton:
While you working with Fish and Wildlife did your career affect your family at all?
Joanne Meadows:
No, it didn't affect it. I was providing support for my daughter, so I needed a job, and at the time my son was on his own. I just needed a job to survive. 8
Dorothe Norton:
What kind of training did you receive for your jobs once you came to Fish and Wildlife?
Joanne Meadows:
Usually on the job training, or, once in a while I would take a little one day or three day course on something or other to help with the job I was in.
Dorothe Norton:
What hours did you work?
Joanne Meadows:
Usually 7:30 until 4:00, in later years I worked 6:45 until 3:15.
Dorothe Norton:
What were your day-to-day duties?
Joanne Meadows:
A jack of all trades I guess, but always in administrative... Well, starting out in clerical, then administrative. That's a wide range of things, from counting beans to personnel actions and everything else to keep an office going.
Dorothe Norton:
And so you never worked with any animals or heard anything, even though you saw them on paper?
Joanne Meadows:
No, I didn't.
Dorothe Norton:
How do you think the people outside Fish and Wildlife saw Fish and Wildlife Service as an agency? Did a lot of them never hear of it, or did any of them ever say, "Wow!" or "What is it?"
Joanne Meadows:
I think still a lot of people confuse Fish and Wildlife with the DNR. And, of course, there are always a lot of people that are anti-government; it doesn't matter if you are federal or state. And then there are others that do, I guess, that I've run into, do think that we do do things that are beneficial for the conservation of the wildlife. So you have all different walks of life.
Dorothe Norton:
What projects were you ever involved in?
Joanne Meadows: 9
Helping to organize administrative workshops, I worked on several of those committees. I can't think of anything else right offhand here.
Dorothe Norton:
Were there ever any major issues that you had to deal with?
Joanne Meadows:
No, I can't believe anything that would set the world on fire!
Dorothe Norton:
Who were your supervisors? Like when you started, who was your supervisor?
Joanne Meadows:
With Fish and Wildlife it was, I can't remember who was in Federal Aid, I was only... Oh, when I started Federal Aid back in the '60's, it was Leonard Springer. And then after I came back in '83, I worked in Federal Aid only for a few weeks, then I went to ES. And at that time Bill Aultfather was the supervisor. And then later I worked with Wes James, he was my supervisor, and then Larry Sisk was my supervisor. And then near the end it was Bill Anderson in Finance Office.
Dorothe Norton:
Who were some of the individuals you feel helped shape your career with Fish and Wildlife Service?
Joanne Meadows:
I guess I learned a lot from Bev Levine working in ES. And I guess that's the only one I can think of offhand.
Dorothe Norton:
Who are some of the people that you knew outside Fish and Wildlife? And did you think they would have been able to work for the Service too? Like neighbors or people in your church.
Joanne Meadows:
I can't respond to that, I don't have any answer.
Dorothe Norton:
Okay. Who was president when you were working, or secretary of interior or Director of Fish and Wildlife?
Joanne Meadows:
I don't recall. Back in the '80s, being a lowly little grade, I wasn't thinking about all the political people. I guess that I was trying to survive, so I don't recall who it was back then.
Dorothe Norton: 10
You said that you started in '60-something over at the Buzza Building?
Joanne Meadows:
I started in 1966.
Dorothe Norton:
Yes, how about Bob Brewerhall?
Joanne Meadows:
Yes, he was the RD at the time.
Dorothe Norton:
Did you have a lot of respect for his position or feel that he was a good RD?
Joanne Meadows:
Well, like I say, starting with a new agency at that time, or I was new to the agency, and being a lowly little GS-4 or whatever, I didn't pay too much attention to the politics. I believe, if I remember correctly, everybody did have respect for him.
Dorothe Norton:
And of course you came back in '81.
Joanne Meadows:
In 1983.
Dorothe Norton:
Okay, so Harvey Nelson.
Joanne Meadows:
Yes, he was there then.
Dorothe Norton:
And then Jim.
Joanne Meadows:
Jim, yes.
Dorothe Norton:
And then Sam Marler and then Bill Hartwig.
Joanne Meadows:
Right.
Dorothe Norton:
Those were the ones you worked under? 11
Joanne Meadows:
Yes.
Dorothe Norton:
Do you think the changes in the administrations affected the work that we were doing?
Joanne Meadows:
I guess I could see a difference from republican to democrat. Of course, we all know republicans are big business and democrats are more for the little guy and the environment. And so you can see some of that. And in recent years a lot of the money has probably not been giving to conservation groups, because it's been needed for more important issues like our security and fighting the wars.
Dorothe Norton:
In your opinion, who are some of the individuals you think who shaped the Service to what it has become today?
Joanne Meadows:
I don't think that I can answer that. I know Teddy Roosevelt, I guess, was kind of the beginning that started Fish and Wildlife, or whatever it was called years ago, Conservation Department, whatever.
Dorothe Norton:
I think it was Biological Survey... Sport Fisheries.
Joanne Meadows:
Oh was it. I guess that I can't answer that.
Dorothe Norton:
What was the high point of your career with Fish and Wildlife?
Joanne Meadows:
Oh, I don't think I really had any one. I enjoyed meeting a lot of friends and the work I did, I enjoyed that.
Dorothe Norton:
How about a low point, did you ever have a low point?
Joanne Meadows:
I had one, but I don't think I want to mention it.
Dorothe Norton:
You don't think you had a low point? 12
Joanne Meadows:
Yeah I did, but I came out of it. When they reassigned me over to Budget and Finance under ABA I didn't appreciate it, but I grew to like it all and accepted it.
Dorothe Norton:
Did you ever experience a dangerous or frightening situation?
Joanne Meadows:
No.
Dorothe Norton:
Well, I bet this one you can talk about though; what was your most humorous experience working with Fish and Wildlife?
Joanne Meadows:
Oh...
Dorothe Norton:
Too many?
Joanne Meadows:
Yeah, probably, although not any one jumps out at me.
Dorothe Norton:
Well, what do you like to tell others about your career with the Fish and Wildlife Service? Like people you meet and they say, "Where did you work when you working?" Things like that.
Joanne Meadows:
Well, I tell them I used to work for the federal government. Although I don't like to tell people that because so many people have a negative connotation of a person working for the government. And then when I do mention Fish and Wildlife, they all assume it's with the state. So, to tell you the truth, I guess I didn't talk about Fish and Wildlife much with outsiders.
Dorothe Norton:
Okay. What were some of the changes that you observed in the Fish and Wildlife from when you started to when you finished, as far as the management and the workload and that type of thing?
Joanne Meadows:
I think as years went by workload seemed to increase because staff was lessened. As far as management, I think it seemed like years ago you knew how the organization was run 13
because the RD would... You would know what his thinking was. Nowadays it seems like no one wants to make a determination or rock anybody's boat, and it seems like a ship without a captain in many aspects. And I guess there's the philosophy nowadays that a manager can be a manager, even though he or she does not know the subject matter. As long as they're a manager, people feel that they can manage anything.
Dorothe Norton:
Any changes in the personnel?
Joanne Meadows:
As years go by we lose more and more due to retirement, and it seemed to me like there were less younger people coming to Fish and Wildlife in the regional office in Minneapolis.
Dorothe Norton:
Anything like changes in the environment in the office?
Joanne Meadows:
Not that I can think of.
Dorothe Norton:
What are your thoughts on the future, like where do you see the Service heading in the next decade?
Joanne Meadows:
I guess I would be surprised if it's still here. I think the politicians are out to consolidate, I don't know, just cut down on government in general.
Dorothe Norton:
Okay. Do you have anything you'd like to donate to the archives, or documents to share or pictures or anything?
Joanne Meadows:
No, I don't.
Dorothe Norton:
Okay. Now who else do you think we should interview? Anybody you can think of that maybe I haven't thought of, or I don't have on my list?
Joanne Meadows:
No, I think the ones I can think of you mentioned that you've tried contacting them, I can't think of anybody new.
Dorothe Norton:
Okay. Well, see how simple this was Joanne? Now we've come to the end of the interview, but I want to thank you for the time that you took to do this for me. 14
KEY WORDS: Joanne Meadows, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, Bureau of Sport Fisheries and Wildlife, Federal Aid, Ecological Services, Buzza Building, Leonard Springer, Bill Aultfather, Wes James, Larry Sisk, Bill Anderson, Bev Levine,
Harvey Nelson, Sam Marler, Bill Hartwig, Theodore Roosevelt, Conservation Department, Biological Survey, Budget and Finance
Bryce Shimmon
No full textBryce Shimmon oral history as conducted by Dorothe Norton.
After recounting his education in South Dakota, Mr. Shimmon discusses his family, and then talks about his career in Fish and Wildlife Services. He talks about his work on computers, his relatively small amount of traveling, and the people he did not particularly get along with during his career.
Organization: FWS
Name: Bryce Shimmon
Years: 1978-2004
Program: Administration
Keywords: Payroll system, Computers, Employees (USFWS),employee, history, biography, programs, ecological services, wildlife refuges, payroll1
Oral History Cover Sheet
Name: Bryce Shimmon
Date of Interview: June 7, 2006
Location of Interview: Fridley, Minnesota
Interviewer: Dorothe Norton
Approximate years worked for Fish and Wildlife Service: 1978-2004, 26 years.
Offices and Field Stations Worked, Positions Held: Regional Office near Denver.
Most Important Projects: Developed payroll systems used by the Fish and Wildlife Service, mapping system for Ecological Services, converting refuges radio systems
Colleagues and Mentors: George Kubik, Tom Kerze, Dan Miller, Barbara Milne, Janice Whitney
Most Important Issues: Government effectiveness and retirement benefits.
Brief Summary of Interview: After recounting his education in South Dakota, he discusses his family, and then talks about his career in Fish and Wildlife Services. He talks about his work with computers, traveling, working on a payroll program, a mapping program, and converting radio systems for refuges.
Keywords: employee, history, biography, computers, programs, ecological services, wildlife refuges, payroll
2
National Heritage Team of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Oral History Program
Subject/USFW Retiree: Bryce Shimmon
Date: 06/07/2006
Interviewed by: Dorothe Norton
Dorothe Norton:
Okay, now we'll start again; your date of birth and place?
Bryce Shimmon:
September 9th, 1937, at Aberdeen, South Dakota.
Dorothe Norton:
And your parents’ names were George and...
Bryce Shimmon:
George and Clara.
Dorothe Norton:
And their jobs?
Bryce Shimmon:
Well, my dad was a salesman and he was in business for himself, and he sold school books to schools in several states, you know, textbooks.
Dorothe Norton:
Oh, that's great, and your mom?
Bryce Shimmon:
She was a school teacher.
Dorothe Norton:
Oh, she was?
Bryce Shimmon:
Yes.
Dorothe Norton:
That's good. Okay, so you spent all of your early years then out in South Dakota?
Bryce Shimmon:
Yes.
Dorothe Norton:
Did you have any hobbies or books or special events? What did you do during those years? 3
Bryce Shimmon:
I graduated from high school there and a couple of years to the college that's there, and then I went to Mankato and graduated there.
Dorothe Norton: And so did you ever have a job as a kid, like a paper route or bagging groceries or?
Bryce Shimmon:
Yes, I worked in a grocery store a little bit when I was a kid.
Dorothe Norton:
Did you ever go hunting or fishing?
Bryce Shimmon:
Oh yes, I did a lot of hunting.
Dorothe Norton:
Your dad was a hunter?
Bryce Shimmon:
Yes.
Dorothe Norton:
And he'd take you out and teach you how to do it, huh?
Bryce Shimmon:
Yep, him and his buddy; the guy's name is John Popowski.
Dorothe Norton:
Oh really?
Bryce Shimmon:
John was his buddy; they'd go hunting all the time.
Dorothe Norton:
That's great. Popowski has moved now up to Spearfish.
Bryce Shimmon:
Yes, well that's his kid, the one that you're thinking of. This was...
Dorothe Norton:
Oh, that's right, okay yes, because you're about the same age as John Popowski, aren't you? He might be a little older than you are.
Bryce Shimmon: 4
Yes.
Dorothe Norton:
The one we knew.
Bryce Shimmon:
Yes, he's a little older. He used to be, I'd seen him before, he's been in the regional office.
Dorothe Norton:
So, you went to high school then in Aberdeen, huh?
Bryce Shimmon:
Yes.
Dorothe Norton:
And what year did you graduate?
Bryce Shimmon:
In '55.
Dorothe Norton:
And then did you go to the university in Aberdeen, too?
Bryce Shimmon:
Well, there was a small college there. I went a couple of years there to just take some courses. And then I went to Mankato to get my regular bachelor's degree in math and physics, and music, I got one in music too.
Dorothe Norton:
Music too? Do you play the piano in there that I saw?
Bryce Shimmon:
Well, I used to. I don't play that anymore, right now I play the cello.
Dorothe Norton:
You do! Does Altfather know about you? He could use you in his band. Except the cello, I don't know how it would go when he's plays Ed's tuba.
Bryce Shimmon:
I don't know.
Dorothe Norton:
That's good though.
Bryce Shimmon: 5
Yes, that's what I do.
Dorothe Norton:
Did you go any further than to try and get a master's or a PhD or anything like that?
Bryce Shimmon:
No, I really didn't do anything after I got my bachelor's.
Dorothe Norton:
Who influenced your education and your career track, your dad or your friends or teachers?
Bryce Shimmon:
Well, I had one teacher that helped that I was studying music under, and he kind of helped me along. But I was kind of set to go either into engineering or some theoretical thing.
Dorothe Norton:
Did you go into the Service, United States Service?
Bryce Shimmon:
No, they drafted me but they turned me down, which is probably good thing or I probably wouldn't be here today.
Dorothe Norton:
That's possible, Bryce. I just get so sick of reading about this Iraq stuff.
Bryce Shimmon:
Well, if we don't go in there to win then don't be in there.
Dorothe Norton:
Right.
Bryce Shimmon:
You know, I don't care whether we're liberators or conquerors, if you're going to war, go in there and kill them and get out.
Dorothe Norton: Yes. Okay, so can you tell me then how and where and when you met your wife?
Bryce Shimmon:
It was at college.
Dorothe Norton:
At college?
6
Bryce Shimmon:
Yes, Mankato.
Dorothe Norton:
Okay.
Bryce Shimmon: And we got married after we graduated.
Dorothe Norton:
Where did you get married?
Bryce Shimmon:
Actually, down there by Mankato, a little town nearby.
Dorothe Norton:
Yeah, that's a pretty part of town. I like New Ulm and Mankato and New Prague and all those. Okay, and do you have any children?
Bryce Shimmon:
Yes, Barbara and Lydia, and they're married.
Dorothe Norton:
And they live right around here?
Bryce Shimmon:
Well, Barbara lives in Jackson with her kids and Lydia lives up in Berne up here, a little north of here.
Dorothe Norton:
What are they doing other than raise children, are they working? Did they go to college?
Bryce Shimmon:
Lydia's husband runs a contracting outfit, he's in construction and he runs a construction company. And Barbara's husband is an engineering manager at a place called AGCO; it's a huge farm implement, you know, huge. They're headquartered in Jackson.
Dorothe Norton:
So after you got out of college and all, did you ever think that you wanted to work for the Service? Or what was your first professional position?
Bryce Shimmon:
Well, I actually wanted to work for industry and I did; I worked for industry for 13 years. That was Univac for 13 years. And after they downsized, I worked for another place called TRW for, I don't know, a few more years. And at that point I decided that I 7
wanted to go to Hewlett Packard, but that didn't work out. So the Hewlett Packard people told me the Fish and Wildlife Service needed a guy like me, and that's how I got there.
Dorothe Norton:
We were fortunate that they told us this.
Bryce Shimmon:
So that was '78.
Dorothe Norton:
Did you think the pay and benefits were okay when you came to the government?
Bryce Shimmon:
Oh, yes. In fact, that's one main reason I came, and that's probably the best reason of all because I mean you can't beat their retirement system.
Dorothe Norton:
Right.
Bryce Shimmon:
I mean, I don't know about the one that they're making them join now, but the one that I was in and you probably too, the CSRS, is a very good retirement system.
Dorothe Norton:
Yes it is, yes. I'm happy too that I got two of my children to go to government work. Because my daughter, when she married her husband, they lived in Hawaii for 15 months, when she got back she said, "What am I going to do now?" I said, "Well, if nothing else," I said, "look up the OPM, and if you have to take a test, take the test." So, she started as a clerk typist for the IRS 32 years ago and now's she’s a 13, and she's head of their labor management department, and my son in the postal service. So it just helps a lot.
So you started then in the regional office, and that's where you spent all of your work?
Bryce Shimmon:
That's where I basically stayed, yes.
Dorothe Norton:
So who was your supervisor when you started?
Bryce Shimmon:
Kubik, you remember him, George Kubik?
Dorothe Norton:
Oh yes. And did you have promotion opportunities then when you started? 8
Bryce Shimmon:
Well, I did, yes. I got after, I don't know how many years it was, three or four years, I got promoted as we got more and more stuff going on with the computer end. And that was what I was doing.
Dorothe Norton:
Oh yes! And when we got our computers I almost quit! I thought, 'Oh, I don't know if I can learn this stuff!' Now I use it quite a bit. So it's just been fun.
Did you ever do anything for recreation with the people you worked with?
Bryce Shimmon:
Not really, we really didn't have time. I had the kids at home and stuff like that. We didn't really have a great deal of time.
Dorothe Norton:
Did your career have any direct effect on your family?
Bryce Shimmon:
On my family?
Dorothe Norton:
Of course, you never had to move around. A lot of these are more for people who would be at one refuge and go to another refuge.
Bryce Shimmon:
No, I didn't have any.
Dorothe Norton:
And so as soon as you were eligible for retirement, you retired?
Bryce Shimmon:
Well, yes. Actually, I would have worked a little longer but I decided being that I was there as long as I had been, and I'd already figured out what I was going to get, and figured this was going to be more than adequate. When they told me I had to be out on the road two weeks a month I said, "Like hell, I do!" And that's I figured well, you know.
Dorothe Norton: And so what date did you retire?
Bryce Shimmon:
November 1st of 2004.
Dorothe Norton: 9
Oh, okay, that's not too long ago. So when you started working with us then, did you get any special training for the job or did you bring a lot of that with you?
Bryce Shimmon:
I brought all of that stuff with me, yes. There wasn't, you know, there wasn't going to be any training. I mean they didn't even have any computers when I got there.
Dorothe Norton:
So that was your prime area of work was with the computers then, if there were problems and such?
Bryce Shimmon:
Yes, help them set it up and that sort of thing.
Dorothe Norton:
So you just worked the regular 7:30 to 4:00, or regular regional office hours?
Bryce Shimmon:
Yes.
Dorothe Norton:
And so you didn't have to travel much then, except you did go to field stations?
Bryce Shimmon:
Oh yes, I went to field stations and I went to Denver several times. And even Washington a few times to help them with their payroll system because that's what I was involved with for quite awhile.
Dorothe Norton:
Yes, I just was out in Denver over the Memorial Day to visit my son. I talked with Neill Hartman, and I remember him from Chicago, but he lives there. And he said, "Oh, there are so many retirees in the Denver area, more than there are here or in Washington even."
Okay, so you never worked with any animals or anything?
Bryce Shimmon:
No, I'm not a biologist, not at all.
Dorothe Norton:
So were there any major issues that you had to deal with?
Bryce Shimmon:
Well, the usual computer issues and like I said, they had me working on the payroll system. We ended up using the one that I basically programmed all over the country. 10
Dorothe Norton: Well, that's great.
Bryce Shimmon:
I don't know how long we used it, because shortly after that we kind of changed courses and went into a...
Dorothe Norton:
Any special projects that you were involved in?
Bryce Shimmon:
That one.
Dorothe Norton:
And that was one!
Bryce Shimmon:
Yes, that was one of them. Another one was their mapping projects.
Dorothe Norton:
Oh, okay, so you worked close with engineering then for that?
Bryce Shimmon:
Not engineering.
Dorothe Norton:
Refuges?
Bryce Shimmon:
It wasn't refuges either. It seemed like it was the ES people; or not ES people, it isn't Endangered Species, it's the other.
Dorothe Norton:
Ecological Services?
Bryce Shimmon:
Yes.
Dorothe Norton:
I know, for a long time too I thought ES was always Endangered Species, until I found out about Ecological Services.
Bryce Shimmon:
So I did mapping and helped them, you know, took training with that and all of that kind of stuff. 11
Dorothe Norton:
So George was your first supervisor. Who did you have after that, do you remember?
Bryce Shimmon:
Well, actually, he was my supervisor until he basically retired.
Dorothe Norton:
Oh really?
Bryce Shimmon:
Yes. And then they had Marvin running the group, and they had Barbara Milne running the group. And then at the time I quit, Janice Whitney was running the group, and I think she still is right now. So that was basically how it worked.
Dorothe Norton:
And it didn't bother you to have a female supervisor?
Bryce Shimmon:
No, I didn't care who it was.
Dorothe Norton: Probably sometimes maybe better than a guy!
Bryce Shimmon:
Yes!
Dorothe Norton:
So, were there any individuals that you were working with that helped shape your career with Fish and Wildlife?
Bryce Shimmon:
Well, not really. We were in administration, and you know how they are, we were serving all the rest of the divisions. So I don't know, Kerze, you don't remember Tom Kerze do you? He was the assistant regional director. But I don't know, he... Not really, I mean to answer that question, I think I pretty much shaped it myself.
Dorothe Norton:
Well, it's interesting. Tom came to this May 9th meeting we had. And I've never seen Tom talk as much as he did there, just real friendly with everybody and, "How are you?" and "what have you been doing?" So I said, "Tom," I said, "I've written you a couple of notes asking if I can come and interview you." But he said, "Well, I tried to send you an email, but it didn't go through." So anyway, he let me come out and I interviewed him last week and he seemed like a different guy, you know, I always thought that he was kind of a very private person because around the regional offices...
12
Bryce Shimmon:
You know how it is. I mean everybody is on administration's tail for whatever reason. I mean, after they get out of there then they can relax. The last project I did basically before I retired was I was involved in converting all of refuges radio systems, and I worked directly for Denver for that. That was kind of a special project. And we did the whole region and a few others because after I finished this region, they wanted me to do a few others. You know, help out some other regions. So we did that as much as we could until the refuges said, "We're not going to pay for this anymore." So that was it.
Dorothe Norton:
Well, we always just depended so much on people like you. If something would happen, well, call Bryce or the other fellow that helped too with the minor problems, Marcus?
Bryce Shimmon: Yes, he moved to Mississippi or something.
Dorothe Norton:
And I know I just told them one thing when they took... I said, "Don't take my typewriter away from me; I don't know if I'll ever be able to learn the computer." And now I enjoy it. But, you know, what I find with kids today, I've got so many nieces and nephews all graduating, hardly any of them can write decent and they do everything on the computer, everything. But that's okay.
Bryce Shimmon:
Yeah, well, I'm not sure that I’m surprised. Thought that people are..., it seems to be that writing has gotten deteriorated in general. They can't even spell. I mean if you've got a computer you could sure as run the spell check. But that surprises me; all the billboards that are misspelled and all the words in articles and stuff.
Dorothe Norton:
Do you remember who the regional director was when you started?
Bryce Shimmon:
A guy by the name of Hemphill.
Dorothe Norton: Okay, and then who after that? Do you remember?
Bryce Shimmon:
Oh shoot, was it Nelson? I don't remember.
Dorothe Norton:
Okay. I was going to write those all down so I have them.
Bryce Shimmon: Who's the other guy, who was the deputy regional director? 13
Dorothe Norton:
Sam Marler?
Bryce Shimmon:
No, it was a different guy. They didn't like him much, but he seemed like a nice guy to me. I bought a shotgun from him. Hemphill didn't like him either. I forget his name, I just can't remember.
Dorothe Norton:
Do you think that changes in the administration generally affected the work that we were doing, changes as far as democrats or republicans?
Bryce Shimmon:
Not really, I don't think they did. I mean there isn't a nickel’s worth of difference between them anyway. One preaches one sort of doctrine and the other one preaches a more conservative doctrine. And the country keeps going in the same general path. So I don't think there's been much difference. I mean, wish there had been, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in today. I believe if they would have opened up wherever the oil reserves are, let them get them. But that stuff is way beyond us, it’s way beyond our government. This is worldwide; this is new world order stuff. The people that handle the pull up strings of our leaders, they control that stuff.
Dorothe Norton: So, in your opinion, all the time you worked for us, who did you feel were a couple of the individuals who helped shape the service to what it is today?
Bryce Shimmon: Well, in Washington or here?
Dorothe Norton:
Well, either or. In the regional office did you ever think there was anybody who'd helped get it where it is today?
Bryce Shimmon:
I don't know about our regional. I'm not an expert on any of the politicians, the big guys in Washington, the directors you know. The last few I really paid no attention to at all because I thought they were mostly figureheads anyway. I thought the Secretary of Interior Watts, I kind of liked him. That was under Reagan for awhile, I don't know who else they had in there but I kind of thought he did alright. Then there was Clark, I thought she had a real personality. I don't know how she ever got in there, but it's all politics anyway.
Dorothe Norton: Yeah, you bet, a lot of it is.
14
Bryce Shimmon: All of it is.
Dorothe Norton:
And I've had some interesting interviews with many different people. And Goody Larson was saying when he got to be the head of personnel in Region 3, he didn't know anything about personnel and Audrey Burke taught him everything he needed to know.
Bryce Shimmon: Who was the guy?
Dorothe Norton:
Goodman Larson; so you don't know him because he was...
Bryce Shimmon: The guy who was in charge of personnel was Miller, a fellow by the name of Dan Miller. Which I thought was kind of... He was there for quite awhile but...
Dorothe Norton:
Did nothing.
Bryce Shimmon: I didn't get along with him that much either.
Dorothe Norton:
He lives just a block away from me, but I haven't told him yet where I live. But he won't even answer any of my notes.
Bryce Shimmon: He's still around?
Dorothe Norton:
Oh yeah. Whenever I drive by, if he's out in the yard or anything, I'm coming from a different you know, and when I go by his corner I just kind of beep and keep going.
Well, did you have a high point in your career? I bet you did.
Bryce Shimmon: Well yes, I enjoyed working and writing the payroll system for them and also doing all the radio systems for them. That was pretty good, I enjoyed that.
Dorothe Norton: Did you get an award for any of that work? I'll bet you did.
Bryce Shimmon: 15
I don't know I might have gotten something. I really just filed them. I never paid any attention to them. I got Civil Servant of the Year from Kerze once. I don't know when that was anymore. I've got to find it; I think I've got it.
Dorothe Norton: It's framed?
Bryce Shimmon:
Yes, they gave me something. I don't know where it is. Like I say, I was...
Dorothe Norton: So busy with everything else you didn't have time to think about those things. Did you ever feel there was a low point in your career, though?
Bryce Shimmon:
I don't think so, I basically enjoyed it all. I was not then, and I still am not one that kisses somebody's hind end because of politics. I don't support most of the so-called "diversity program" because it's politically correct bullshit in my opinion.
Dorothe Norton: Were you ever faced with a dangerous or frightening experience?
Bryce Shimmon: No, not that I know of, not at all.
Dorothe Norton:
How about a humorous experience? Did anything ever happen that you remember a lot and say, "Oh god, remember when this happened?"
Bryce Shimmon:
No, nothing out of the ordinary. In my opinion I worked pretty hard and I got paid well for what I did and was happy about it.
Dorothe Norton: So what do you like to tell others about your career? If you've got a new neighbor or something, after you talk awhile and, "Where did you work?" What do you like to tell them? You'd tell them what you did, but then for the company you did it for.
Bryce Shimmon:
I would tell them the government is a good place to work if you can stand all of the nonsense that goes along with it, the politically correct junk. And if you can see through all of that and not get afoul of it, you can be fine. I would recommend it.
Dorothe Norton: What were some of the changes that you observed in the Service, like in the personnel and the environment? 16
Bryce Shimmon:
Well, I noticed that as the regional directors moved on a
Oral memoirs of Brenda Norton: an interview conducted on April 5, 2022
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Sam "Kangaroo"
Full text linkabstract: Sam left Sudan when he was six years old. He also witnessed many people die when they tried to cross the Gilo river.
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Oral History Interview with Norton Bourg
No full textA recorded interview with Norton Bourg, in French. A document which lists the topics and their time stamps is also included in English.Memories of Terrebonne is an Oral History Project conducted and produced by the Terrebonne Parish Police Jury and Cote Blanche Productions. The interviews were conducted over the span of two years, 1983-1984, and cover subjects such as the folklore and cultural traditions of the Parish as remembered by its long-time residents
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Interview with Ruth Janke by Dorothe Norton, November 11, 2003
No full textOral history interview with Ruth Janke; Dorothe Norton as interviewer.INTERVIEW WITH RUTH JANKE
BY DOROTHE NORTON, NOVEMBER 11, 2003
ST. PAUL, MINNESOTA
MS. NORTON: Today in November 11, 2003. This interview will be between Ruth
Janke and Dorothe Norton. Ruth retired from the FWS Bureau of Law Enforcement in
2002. Ruth, what is your birthplace and date?
MRS. JANKE: I was born in Superior, Wisconsin on June 5, 1939.
MS. NORTON: What were your parent’s names?
MRS. JANKE: My father’s name was Gust Luostari. Luostari of course was my
maiden name. My Mother’s name was Mabel Pearson. Luostari is a good Finnish name.
MS. NORTON: Where did you spend your early years? Where they all in Wisconsin?
MRS. JANKE: Yes, I grew up on a farm in Maple, Wisconsin, which is east of Superior.
I graduated from high school there. Then I went on down to Minneapolis to work.
MS. NORTON: While you were younger, and still in school did you every have any
jobs?
MRS. JANKE: My junior and senior year I worked in the Co-op store in the area as a
check out girl.
MS. NORTON: Did you have any hobbies, activities or books that influenced you a lot?
You probably didn’t play golf back then!
MRS. JANKE: No, I didn’t play golf then. Growing up on a farm I was outside a lot; in
the woods. Nature was a big thing in my life. Our hobbies back then were that we would
go roller staking. We lived in the country. We weren’t in the city so it wasn’t going to
the movies or that type of thing.
MS.NORTON: So your Dad was a farmer and your Mom was a housewife?
MRS. JANKE: Right.
MR. NORTON: Did you ever hunt or fish when you were younger?
MRS. JANKE: No, I didn’t really. My father hunted and did a little fishing but other
than that; we had a creek going through our property and we would make fishing poles
out of string and a little hook and fish for “chubs” as we called them.
MS. NORTON: What were chubs?
MRS. JANKE: I think they were small suckers that weren’t developed yet, or smaller
fish. Of course we would catch tadpoles and butterflies and all the other normal things
that kids do outdoors.
MS. NORTON: So you graduated from high school in what year?
MRS. JANKE: In 1957 I graduated from Northwestern High School in Maple,
Wisconsin.
MS. NORTON: Did you go to college after high school?
MRS. JANKE: No I didn’t. I had taken a secretarial course and went to work in
Minneapolis at Northwestern National Bank.
MS. NORTON: So you didn’t go to college, and you probably were never in the military
service?
MRS. JANKE: No, I wasn’t.
MS. NORTON: Can you tell me how when and where you met Roger?
MRS. JANKE: I worked in Minneapolis for two years. Then I went back home and
worked in Duluth for Minnesota Power and Light Company. While I was working there I
was Secretary to the Purchasing Agent. I met Roger while I was working there while I
was roller-skating back in my hometown. I think we were married a year and a half after I
met him. We got married in Poplar, Wisconsin, which is right near Maple in July of 1960.
MS. NORTON: How many children do you have?
MRS. JANKE: We have four sons. Rick in the oldest. He works for Schwing America.
He is a computer program manager. Rob is the second son. He works for Federal
Express. Rodney works for Northwest Airlines and Russell, the youngest, works for a
company out at Forest Lake. I am not exactly sure what he does, but it’s some type of
computer work.
MS. NORTON: So all of your boy’s names begin with an R, just like yours!
MRS. JANKE: Right!
MS. NORTON: Well, that’s all of the personal information. Now we’ll go to your
career. You told me the different companies that you were with, the bank and the power
company. Why did you want to work for the Service? Did you really know anything
about the FWS before you came to work for us?
MRS. JANKE: It was kind of strange how I got there because I had worked for H. A.
Rodgers Company right after we were married. Then when the kids were growing up I
worked part-time for Montgomery Ward. When Montgomery Ward closed in January of
1986, we were all given the chance to further our education in computers, which was all
going to be paid for. I took some computer and typing courses and different things at St.
Paul Technical College, which was called TVI at the time. They were offering the federal
test during all of that summer. Everyone was taking it so I thought I might as well take it
too. I did and got on the list. I was still taking some computer course in the fall of 1986
and I had gotten to know a lot of different people. One of the girls said that she had been
called and was now working for the Federal Aviation Administration; FAA. I said that it
was strange that I hadn’t been called. She asked me what areas I had put down. I told
here Minneapolis and St. Paul. She told me to call back and make sure I got on for the
airport and Fort Snelling. There were a number of different lists I needed to get on so if
there were openings they would look at my resume. A couple of weeks after I got that
straightened out; I received a letter from the Housing Authority and one from another
agency. I got one from the FWS and I got all excited and said, “Oh, that’s where I want to
work!” Anyway, I right away signed up for an interview and it was with Refuges. It was
Jerry Schotzko who interviewed me. He hired me! So I started in Refuges in 1986.
MS. NORTON: Where did you go from there?
MRS. JANKE: I moved over to Law Enforcement in February of 1990. I stayed there
and liked it, so I was there until I retired.
MS. NORTON: When you came to work for the government, how did you feel about the
pay and benefits?
MRS. JANKE: I guess I felt like I had a secure position when I came on. That made me
feel good. I think the pay was equal to what I would have been getting from the courses I
had taken; had I gone in as a beginning position at that time. The one thing I know, and
Jerry always used to tease me about, I had been used to a “crack the whip” situation.
You had to be so busy all of the time and you never had a chance to breathe.
Jerry used to laugh and say, “Slow down, you have time to do this!” I guess I just wasn’t
used to that part of it. But I enjoyed in.
MS. NORTON: What grade were you?
MRS. JANKE: I started as a GS-4.
MS. NORTON: But you had promotion opportunities, right?
MRS. JANKE: Right. I think I moved to a GS-5 shortly after I was in Refuges. And I
think when I went in to Law Enforcement I got a GS-6 right away. When I retired I was a
GS-8.
MS. NORTON: That’s great! Were you still considered a secretary? Or, what was your
title?
MRS. JANKE: I was Executive Assistant to the Assistant Regional Director for Law
Enforcement.
MS. NORTON: That’s a nice title. And you had to earn it, I know! Did you socialize
with some of the people you worked with?
MRS. JANKE: Oh yes. I am quite a socialite anyway; I talk a lot so yes, I made a lot of
friends.
MS. NORTON: What sort of recreation did you do with people from the office?
MRS. JANKE: Actually, that was mostly the different office/work parties and things. I
had my family and everything, and a husband. We didn’t get together so to speak like
going to the movies, or play cards at each other’s houses, or anything like that. But it
was the Christmas parties and picnics and different things like that.
MS. NORTON: But you did enjoy seeing the people you worked with away from the
office?
MRS. JANKE: Right!
MS. NORTON: Did your career with FWS affect your family at all?
MRS. JANKE: If it did, it was for the better I think. In my family the boys are all great
fishermen and so is my husband. They enjoy their boats and hunting. I think they would
have had that anyway but… I don’t know. I just enjoyed it. I just enjoyed the subject
and being with wildlife and that type of thing. I should have gotten in to that when I first
got out of high school!
MS. NORTON: And when you left the Service in 2002 you were eligible for retirement?
MRS. JANKE: Yes.
MS. NORTON: What kind of FWS training did you receive for your different jobs?
MRS. JANKE: We got the computer training that we needed and I did get to go to
Shepherdstown to the Training Center for the Secretarial course. I am not sure what year
that was.
MS. NORTON: How did you like the Training Center?
MRS. JANKE: It’s a beautiful place. When I went there it was the first year they were
open to everything was brand new. We were all quite impressed.
MS. NORTON: It’s almost like being in a sanctuary because you don’t hear a lot of
airplanes, or telephones ringing. I hope you can make it next year to the meeting of all
retirees because it will be there. Possibly in the following year it will be on the other
coast. We try and move it like we do with Law Enforcement reunions to either side of the
Mississippi to try and get more people to come. Did you ever work any overtime hours?
MRS. JANKE: It was mostly just the regular Regional office hours; the eight-hour day.
MS. NORTON: What were your regular duties?
MRS. JANKE: My day-to-day duties were just about everything! I would usually start
at 7 am and work until 3:30pm. During the summer for a few years I worked a
compressed week so I’d get every other Wednesday off. So people started work at
6:30am. I’d get there and the phone would start ringing and I’d talk to the Agents. There
was a lot of work with the Agents in the field and the other secretaries. There was a lot
going on all day long, so it was a busy position.
MS. NORTON: Would you care to tell us what you did on Wednesdays when you had
that off?
MRS. JANKE: Well, I’ve belonged to a golf league for twenty or twenty-five years.
That’s what I would do on the every other Wednesday day when I had that off. I would
play golf. And I am still in the league!
MS. NORTON: When you retired, what was one of the best gifts you got?
MRS. JANKE: Of course, everybody knew I played golf, so they gave me a new set of
clubs, which I really am using and enjoying.
MS. NORTON: They must have thought a lot of you and your work! We all thought
you were a pretty good secretary!
MRS. JANKE: I was pleased! I couldn’t believe it when they brought them out! It was
just too much!
MS. NORTON: I never had any problems with you as secretary when you were there.
You were cooperative and you helped whenever you could. And if you didn’t know
something, you’d ask and then learn! That was very good. Did you every have any
special tools that you used other than the computers?
MRS. JANKE: I don’t think so. I know I had to keep track of the entire inventory. My
husband always used to tease me that I needed a gun safety course because I had to count
the guns and keep track of where they were.
MS. NORTON: Were you ever involved in any special projects?
MRS. JANKE: I am sure I was, but offhand I can’t think of them.
MS. NORTON: Did you have to deal with any major issues?
MRS. JANKE: I am sure there were. There were problems with vehicles. Those are
sometimes an issue. I don’t know.
MS. NORTON: Did you ever feel that there was ever a major impediment to your job or
career? Was there anything holding you back, or a promotion that you would have liked
to have gotten?
MRS. JANKE: Well, I worked pretty hard to get from GS-7 to 8. I was a 7 for years
and wanted to get to 8. I think the job qualified for it, but it took quite a while for it to go
through. One other thing was that I would have liked to have had the chance to see our
Washington, D. C. Law Enforcement office. I didn’t get a chance to go there in my career.
I think I would have enjoyed seeing that, and where everybody worked. I had met the
different people but it would have been nice to visit the office.
MS. NORTON: Who were your different Supervisors? I know that when you started
Jerry Schotzko was the Supervisor.
MRS. NORTON: Yeah, Jerry was in Refuges. Then I had Chuck Gibbons. I was his
Secretary while I was in Refuges. Then I went on to Law Enforcement. Dorothe Norton
was the Administrative Officer. At that time, Larry Hood was the ARD. Bill
Zimmerman was the Deputy. After Larry left, then came Dave Perrington. He was there
for two years and he retired. During that time, Gay Inman came in as the Administrative
Officer. After Perrington left, there was three months stints where we had Kevin Adams,
Rick Thornton and somebody else; he’s up in Alaska right now. He’s the ARD in Alaska
now. Then Richard Marks came on. John Neal came as the Deputy. When John Neal
left, Mary Jane Levine came on as the Deputy. When Dick went back to Washington
Mary Jane became the ARD. She is still in that position. Nick Chavez came from
Washington and he is now the Deputy.
MS. NORTON: So you had many supervisors! And they were probably all very
pleased with your work!
MRS. JANKE: Yes, and I liked all of them also.
MS. NORTON: Were there any particular individuals who helped shape your career?
MRS. JANKE: I don’t know. I think that everyone was so helpful. I got along with
everyone. I think we just worked all together.
MS. NORTON: That’s good! Do you remember who was President, Secretary of the
Interior or Director of the Fish and Wildlife Service during your career with the Service?
MS. JANKE: Senior moment! Gee, who was in when I came on? I know there was
Reagan and Bush, Sr.
MS. NORTON: Did you ever feel that changes in the administrations affected the work
that we were expected to do, as in Republicans versus Democrats?
MRS. JANKE: Yes, I think it did. But I don’t know how to pin point exactly how the
changes came. I know that it affected our budget with the different administrations. At
times we had more to work with and at times less. We had to pull in the reigns some
time. But other than that, I don’t know.
MS. NORTON: Who do you think some of the individuals were that we worked with,
that helped shape the Service and how it has improved over the years?
MRS. JANKE: The Service in general?
MS. NORTON: Yes. Or was there anybody that you worked with who you felt was
making a big impact?
MRS. JANKE: Well I know that Region 3 always had good Regional Directors because
we were always spoken of very highly by the other regions. I think that just the way the
Region was managed was good.
MS. NORTON: Are there any Regional Directors that you remember the most?
MRS. JANKE: The ones that I remember to have been….well, they were all friendly
with Law Enforcement. It seemed like Sam Marhler was good. Jim Grittman was there.
Harvey Nelson was before him. In fact, I would see Harvey in different places and he
would always say hello. I was rather impressed that he would remember the secretary in
Law Enforcement. I think that the Directors made a lot of difference in how the region
was run.
MS. NORTON: What do you think was the high point of your career?
MRS. JANKE: I don’t know, just the whole job. I just enjoyed it so much. I kind of
hated to leave but I felt that with my husband’s health problems and things that I needed
to do; I felt that I needed to retire and spend more time with him and the family.
Otherwise, I probably would have kept on for a few more years.
MS. NORTON: Did you ever get any special awards?
MRS. JANKE: Oh yes, every year I think I got performance awards. There were
different things each year. They were always substantial so that was nice.
MS. NORTON: Did you ever have a low point in your career?
MRS. JANKE: When I was back in Refuges there was a point that I felt that I didn’t get
a rating that I deserved and I did carry it a little bit further with Dick Tolsman. I felt that
I didn’t want to push any further and I accepted what I had gotten.
MS. NORTON: Did you ever have a dangerous or frightening experience?
MRS. JANKE: I was pretty much in the Regional Office. I really don’t think I had
anything that was dangerous or frightening to me.
MS. NORTON: That’s good. How about humorous?
MRS. JANKE: Oh, we had a lot of fun! There were a lot of laughs? I know that at the
last Law Enforcement district meeting that I went to down in Indiana; my birthday
happened to be during that time. I was given a shirt that said, “Happy Birthday—Give
me a Dollar!” I still have the shirt! Different agents were giving me dollars throughout
the day. That was kind funny.
MS. NORTON: That was kind of cute. You probably got enough so that you could
probably buy a golf ball or something! What do you like to tell others about your career
with FWS, your neighbors, friends and relatives?
MRS. JANKE: Like so many others, when I say I worked for the FWS, they think it’s
the DNR. Of course, I always have to correct them and say, “No, federal Fish and
Wildlife Service.” I like to tell them about what a wonderful place it is to work and what
a wonderful agency it is. That’s my opinion anyway. I think we do a lot of good for
wildlife and for the Service.
MS. NORTON: Did you ever notice any changes in the Service during the years that you
worked there as far as personnel and the work environment? Did you ever feel that they
had made some changes that you wished they hadn’t?
MRS. JANKE: Things always changed, but I don’t know that I ever noticed anything
that wasn’t right. Nothing sticks out in my mind that I was really upset about.
MS. NORTON: What are your thoughts for the future? Where do you see the Service
heading in the next decades?
MRS. JANKE: I would hope that they would continue. I get letters on this well drilling
up in Alaska and I’ve stated my opinion to Nick Coleman and others of our Washington
people on that. I get the magazine Defenders of Wildlife and I keep up on the magazines
and stuff. I read up on how things are going along.
MS. NORTON: So you feel that the Service is still on an upward swing?
MRS. JANKE: I feel it is, yes.
MS. NORTON: Do you have any photographs or documents that you would want to
donate to go with your tape into the Archives?
MRS. JANKE: No.
MS. NORTON: Is there anybody else that we should be interviewing?
MRS. JANKE: No, because I think you are doing a good job of covering everybody
Dorothe!
MS. NORTON: I am trying to get everybody I can in Region 3, especially and any
others I can get to. I want to thank you Ruth! I appreciate your time. It’s good to see
you! I haven’t seen you since last year, at your party!
MRS. JANKE: Thank you
- …
