386,202 research outputs found
Interview with Gary Carden
Gary Carden, who first met Josephina Niggli as a student in the theatre department at Western Carolina College in the 1950’s, discusses his impressions of her personality, her work, and the ways the theatre department changed after her arrival
Gary Tsudama interview
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>> Carlene Tinker: [audio issues] Good morning Mr. Tsudama.
>> Gary Tsudama: Good morning.
>> Carlene Tinker: Thank you very much for agreeing to participate in our Oral History Project. The Oral History Project, as you know, is for the Special Collections Research Center at the Henry Madden Library at Fresno State, and principally, it focuses on people who were in relo-relocation camps during World War II. So, basically, all of those of us who are Japanese Americans, okay.
>> Gary Tsudama: Correct.
>> Carlene Tinker: So, my name is Carlene Tanigoshi Tinker and I'm a volunteer for Special Collections and I will be the interviewer today and we are meeting today on Thursday, August 17th, 2017, at my home.
>> Gary Tsudama: Correct.
>> Carlene Tinker: My home is located at 4553 East Alamos, Fresno 93726. Just to give you a little background, Dr. Howard Ono and I are actually doing the interviewing, because, not only are we volunteers, but we also are former internees; although, we were young. We still have some memories and some experiences that we'd like to share with others and that was how we got interested in this project. The particular relocation camp that we were in was Amache in Southeastern Colorado. It was formerly known as Granada Relocation Center, but because they were in it the town[of Granada] was inundated with so much mail from the nearby camp, they decided that maybe the relocation camp had to be renamed. So, that's how; and what they did was they actually got ideas for a new name and they decided to name it after the wife, long deceased, but wife of a local cattle baron and his name was John Prowers and her name was Amache, her first name was Amache and they were Cheyenne Indians. So, that's how that name came about.
>> Gary Tsudama: Alright. That's good to know.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. It's interesting isn't it?
>> Gary Tsudama: It is.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. And so, today, [I will be] interviewing you to get your ideas and your memories, as well as, the experiences to compare with ours and these will be online. They will be part of an electronic E-collection and people will be able to research, hear your story as a former internee.
>> Gary Tsudama: Okay. Right.
>> Carlene Tinker: So, basically the format will be, I will be looking or I will be asking you questions about your history, your family history and your life, early life in California and then relocation camp, and then after you came back.
>> Gary Tsudama: Okay.
>> Carlene Tinker: Okay, so that's how we're going to do.
>> Gary Tsudama: Okay.2
>> Carlene Tinker: Do you have any questions?
>> Gary Tsudama: No, no questions.
>> Carlene Tinker: Okay. Okay, so first of all I want you to give me your full name, your birthdate, your place of birth, and the place where you lived the longest.
>> Gary Tsudama: Okay. My name is Gary Shigeru Tsudama. I was born in Stockton, California, St. Joseph Hospital in April 13, 1925. I lived at 321 South Commerce Street in Stockton for most of [phone ringing] and my family had a grocery store just a block away. It was a pop and mom store, but then it was big enough to hire some people and I as a teenager, went to help there too. Right across the street was uh, Franklin School that I attended until they transferred myself and my friend Sei Hattori. I lived right next door to the school and they transferred me and we had to bike a mile-and-a-half to Lafayette School, and there from the 3rd grade to 6th grade, I went to Lafayette School and from 7th grade I went to Washington School. And while I was at Lafayette School I met a German friend and we became buddies and at high school we met every morning before we went to school, I mean, before we went to classes and then we met together for lunch and then that went on for 4—3-and-a-half years. When December 7th came along, which was Sunday, Monday morning I saw him and he called me a "dirty Jap." And I went to slug him, but my friend held me back because if I slugged him, I would [have] had to go see the principal, not this fella. Anyway, that was the first discrimination that I felt.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. Okay, now okay you were in Stockton basically from the time you born until through high school?
>> Gary Tsudama: Right.
>> Carlene Tinker: And then you went to camp and then when you came back from camp where did you end up? In other words, did you, when did you come back to Fresno or come to Fresno?
>> Gary Tsudama: Well, we evac—we were evacuated to the Stockton Assembly Center at the fairgrounds in Stockton and we stayed there 6 months and then we were sent to Gila Rivers in Arizona. And from there, my dad was 55 years old; I thought he was such an old man [brief laughter]. But then, he got tired and he got bored and said “we got to get out of here”, and this was in ‘44, 1944. And then we moved to, relocated to Alamosa, Colorado where a friend wrote him and we were there for 8 years.
>> Carlene Tinker: Oh, wow.
>> Gary Tsudama: Yeah, we farmed.
>> Carlene Tinker: I didn't realize that.
>> Gary Tsudama: Yeah. We farmed there. We were laborer for 2 years and then said, "This isn't good." So, we found a farmer who would share crop with us and we did that in Alamosa and then we finally bought a plot area, 160-acres which was 40-acres of good, but the rest of it was alkali.
>> Carlene Tinker: Oh my gosh. Oh.
>> Gary Tsudama: But we were able to farm. And from there, we came; I was inducted into the service and served my time in Korea and when I was discharged, I came back to Alamosa and I 3
told my folks I want to go to college and my brother was living in Fresno and he was married. So, I wrote to him and he said, "Sure, come on back." So, I went from Alamosa to Fresno.
>> Carlene Tinker: Okay, what year was that then? Probably?
>> Gary Tsudama: Nineteen fifty-two.
>> Carlene Tinker: Fifty-two, okay.
>> Gary Tsudama: And then I came to Fresno and I started part-time job and then uh, so when school started I signed up to go to Fresno State and I was there for 3-and-a-half years again.
>> Carlene Tinker: Okay, so that would be 1955-56.
>> Gary Tsudama: Five uh-hum. And then I got married; which I got married a little bit early. Not early, because I was 31 and 32 then, so that's late actually [brief laughter]. But, since I was going to school that was early. And then, naturally what happens is kids come; kids are born, so I dropped out and then I started working fulltime and I was working as a, I tried to get into my major of BusAG, but at that time no one looked at us when we applied for a job for office. So, my second minor was accounting, so I went into the accounting field now. So, which was that panned out alright and so I was accounting clerk for a while and then accounting for several years. And then my brother, 2 of my brother[s] were working at the Post Office and they were getting 5.50 outside of Post Office.” I couldn't make that change. Then I realized the benefits was greater.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah, that is important, isn't it?
>> Gary Tsudama: Yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Gary Tsudama: So, I applied for a job at the Post Office and I was able to get in. So, I worked at the Post Office for 20 years and I got my pension there which I was glad and I also have my healthcare there.
>> Carlene Tinker: Oh, right. So, you worked at the Post Office for only 20, years is that what you're saying? And then how old were you when you retired then?
>> Gary Tsudama: I retired at 67.
>> Carlene Tinker: Oh, my goodness and so what did you do from 67 until your present age of 92?
>> Gary Tsudama: Well, I retired and then just then my—there was a church group that, my church group, Buddhist Church started a senior club. So I changed—I joined it and then we went on tours and went to casinos and went to Wyoming and Grand Canyon and things and then my wife says, "You're having too much fun." So she retired from the IRS after she worked there for 26 years.
>>Carlene Tinker: Uh-hum.
>> Gary Tsudama: [brief laughter] So, then she started having fun with me which was good.4
>> Carlene Tinker: Oh, that's great. Then you had time together.
>> Gary Tsudama: Uh-hum.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Gary Tsudama: Yeah.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Gary Tsudama: Yeah.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. Okay, well let's stop here and go back a little bit, because we'll come back to your experiences here in--
>> Gary Tsudama: Right.
>> Carlene Tinker: --Fresno. I want to talk about your family background, you know, your parents, your grandparents. I assume it was just your parents who came to the United States?
>> Gary Tsudama: Yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: Is that right?
>> Gary Tsudama: Yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: So, where did they come from? What part of Japan?
>> Gary Tsudama: My father, when he was 16, he came from Hiroshima, Japan to the Stockton Delta area, because that's where a lot of Hiroshima people went to.
>> Carlene Tinker: Oh, is that right? Okay.
>> Gary Tsudama: So, that's where he met a lot of people and then after working several years, my father—uh, my grandfather wrote to him and said, "It's about time you got married."
>> Carlene Tinker: A little family pressure [brief laughter].
>> Gary Tsudama: So, my grandfather sent my father a picture, so it was a picture of wedding which was good. So, my father figured “if my wife is going to come, I can't have her working out in the field.” So, he quit that farming and came into Stockton and opened up a grocery store. And then when my mother came to San Francisco, he went and met her there with the picture and then they went to the City Hall in San Francisco and got married and drove back to Stockton and their life began, and…
>> Carlene Tinker: Now was your mother quite a bit younger than your dad or were they--
>> Gary Tsudama: Oh yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: --About the same?
>> Gary Tsudama: Nine years younger.
>> Carlene Tinker: Nine years. Well, that's, that's not very much. I've heard of maybe 15 or 20 years, yeah.5
>> Gary Tsudama: Right.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah, yeah so then they came back to, I mean he brought her to Stockton.
>> Gary Tsudama: Stockton.
>> Carlene Tinker: And then what happened? They ran a grocery store?
>> Gary Tsudama: Yes and we had the grocery store, and then dad worked at it; and mom working at the store too until the kids start coming.
>> Carlene Tinker: Hmm. How many kids?
>> Gary Tsudama: We had 7.
>> Carlene Tinker: Seven. And where are you in that birth order?
>> Gary Tsudama: Six.
>> Carlene Tinker: Six. Okay, and then who was the 7th one?
>> Gary Tsudama: My sister.
>> Carlene Tinker: Okay. Was it; as I remember you told me that there were all boys and then one girl is that correct?
>> Gary Tsudama: That's right.
>> Carlene Tinker: Are you all close; were they spaced about like once every 2 years or something?
>> Gary Tsudama: That's right. Every 2 years.
>> Carlene Tinker: Oh, my gosh. Your mom was really busy.
>> Gary Tsudama: That's right. So, during that time she didn't come to the store.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Gary Tsudama: Stayed at home, took care of the kids.
>> Carlene Tinker: Who helped in the store? Did he hire people from--
>> Gary Tsudama: Yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: The outside?
>> Gary Tsudama: Yeah, he hired people, one elderly gentleman that he stayed with us. And then naturally when my oldest brother was able to, because when they're a teenager they start helping at the store.
>> Carlene Tinker: Oh, I see.
>> Gary Tsudama: So that was good.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. And did you also help in the store--6
>> Gary Tsudama: Yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: --When you got old enough?
>> Gary Tsudama: Right.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Gary Tsudama: In fact, on Saturdays, my job at home was to chop wood for the stove.
>> Carlene Tinker: Wow.
>> Gary Tsudama: So, after that I was free. So I used to play baseball and football and--
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Gary Tsudama: --Did that. So, I had a easy life [brief laughter] before the evacuation.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right. What kind of groceries did they carry? Was, or did they have a meat department as well?
>> Gary Tsudama: Yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: And veggies?
>> Gary Tsudama: Yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: You had vegetables?
>> Gary Tsudama: We had the vegetables up in the front and then canned goods on the side and produce and then, then my dad opened up a meat corner which was good, because during that time it was Depression time.
>> Carlene Tinker: Oh, yeah.
>> Gary Tsudama: So, I guess we didn't suffer too bad because we just went to the store and got the food and came home and ate it.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah, you were one of the fortunate ones.
>> Gary Tsudama: Yeah, we were lucky that way.
>> Carlene Tinker: What was I going to , um? So, it sounds like your parents had, or your dad had a very successful business. As I recall when we talked earlier, you said it was good enough that he made enough money to go back to Japan to help out his family. Was that true?
>> Gary Tsudama: Yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: Did I remember that correctly?
>> Gary Tsudama: No, that's he stayed in the states all the time.
>> Carlene Tinker: But I mean he just went to visit.
>> Gary Tsudama: To visit, visit, right.
>> Carlene Tinker: And was able to help them financially…7
>> Gary Tsudama: Right.
>> Carlene Tinker: Is that correct?
>> Gary Tsudama: Right.
>> Carlene Tinker: What did your grandparents do in Japan? I forgot to ask that.
>> Gary Tsudama: I really don't know.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Gary Tsudama: Yeah.
>> Carlene Tinker: I can't remember. I think my grandfather came from Hiroshima also.
>> Gary Tsudama: Oh.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. But I think, if I remember from reading a lot of people were in farming.
>> Gary Tsudama: Right.
>> Carlene Tinker: And you know things were really-- taxation was high and that was why a lot of people left like your father left.
>> Gary Tsudama: Right.
>> Carlene Tinker: My grandfather came when he was 14?
>> Gary Tsudama: Fourteen.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Gary Tsudama: See, my dad was 16.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Gary Tsudama: When he came here.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. So, Depression here in California or the United States is just like what was happening there, so.
>> Gary Tsudama: Is that right?
>> Carlene Tinker: That motivated a lot of people to do different things.
>> Gary Tsudama: Right.
>> Carlene Tinker: and I think, at least in my grandpa's case, I think he had intended like a lot of them to go back to Japan, but he ended up getting married and staying in the United States.
>> Gary Tsudama: See, my father believed in Japan.
>> Carlene Tinker: He, I'm sorry?8
>> Gary Tsudama: He believed in Japan. So, when he had extra money he bought stocks in Japan.
>> Carlene Tinker: Oh!
>> Gary Tsudama: Yes. Whereas, other Issei people bought stock in American stock, you know, which was good. So, when the [alarm sound] war broke out, it was nothing.
>> Carlene Tinker: Oh, yeah.
>> Gary Tsudama: Yeah.
>> Carlene Tinker: Oh, yeah.
>> Gary Tsudama: So he lost all that money.
>> Carlene Tinker: Oh, wow.
>> Gary Tsudama: So that was a bad mistake he made.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. And earlier, you talked about going to school, grammar school, junior high and finishing high school in Stockton and you intimated that this German friend of yours was probably your first experience with discrimination.
>> Gary Tsudama: Yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: When he called you a—
>> Gary Tsudama: “Jap”
>> Carlene Tinker: --“dirty Jap” or something like that.
>> Gary Tsudama: Hmm, that’s right.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah, you know, that really hurt I'm sure.
>> Gary Tsudama: Oh, yes it hurt because from 3rd grade all the way up to senior we were buddies.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Gary Tsudama: Then the war broke out, next day he called me a dirty Jap--
>> Carlene Tinker: Oh.
>> Gary Tsudama: You know? So, it had to be the parents telling them.
>> Carlene Tinker: Oh, yeah.
>> Gary Tsudama: But, what I can't figure out is why the parents did that, because they were Germans.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah, they weren't--
>> Gary Tsudama: German, Italy and Japan were allies you know?
>> Carlene Tinker: That's right. They were enemies too.9
>> Gary Tsudama: That's right. So.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. You know, um, prejudice and discrimination are just amazing. You know, like my parents when they came back to California after the war, they tried to move in to North Long Beach and people were signing a petition to get rid of them and, you know, and fortunately, that wasn't successful and those people who circulated the petition became their closest friend. [brief Laughter] You know, so, you know, you just kind of wonder what goes through people's minds.
>> Gary Tsudama: Mind, right.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. When you growing up in Stockton did you speak Japanese?
>> Gary Tsudama: Oh, yes. In fact…
>> Carlene Tinker: Did you go to a Japanese school?
>> Gary Tsudama: We spoke Japanese until I started kindergarten. So I had to learn English starting in kindergarten.
>> Carlene Tinker: Oh, you didn't speak English until then.
>> Gary Tsudama: No.
>> Carlene Tinker: Oh,wow.
>> Gary Tsudama: All the kids that we played with spoke Japanese.
>>Carlene Tinker: Uh-huh.
>> Gary Tsudama: So we started to talk[english] in kindergarten, that's where we started.
>> Carlene Tinker: Oh, wow, yeah.
>> Gary Tsudama: So it was— that was bad I thought, but.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. How did you learn English? Was it easy or was it sink or swim, you know?
>> Gary Tsudama: No, no. I guess it came on easy.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. I think when you're younger.
>> Gary Tsudama: Yeah. It--my brain absorbed it quick—quicker not like now.
>> Carlene Tinker: Speaking for those of us who are now having difficulties remembering things.
>> Gary Tsudama: Right [brief laughter].
>> Carlene Tinker: Isn't that amazing too?
>> Gary Tsudama: It sure is.
>> Carlene Tinker: Did you go to Japanese school after school?
>> Gary Tsudama: Yes.10
>> Carlene Tinker: On Saturdays?
>> Gary Tsudama: No. Went to school, English school for 5 days and then I got out that school at 3 O'clock and we came home, picked up our books and went to Japanese school.
>> Carlene Tinker: Oh, you did.
>> Gary Tsudama: From 3:30 to 6.
>> Carlene Tinker: Okay.
>> Gary Tsudama: Every day.
>> Carlene Tinker: Oh, wow.
>> Gary Tsudama: Five days a week, so.
>> Carlene Tinker: What did you learn in the Japanese school after school?
>> Gary Tsudama: Well, we learned how to read, but boy[s] being boys they never studied at home, but girls being girls they studied at home, they spoke perfect Japanese and boys are really slow [brief laughter].
>> Carlene Tinker: I never did that. We lived in an area where there were; I mean I was 1 of 2 families as I was growing up. So we didn't have that opportunity. And I think Dr. Ono the other volunteer who is interviewing people, he did go to Japanese school.
>> Gary Tsudama: Oh, great.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. What religion are you? What religion do you have?
>> Gary Tsudama: I'm a Buddhist.
>> Carlene Tinker: And so, were you a Buddha—were there a lot of Buddhists, were there many Christians in Stockton?
>> Gary Tsudama: Hmm, Yes. There are Christians and Buddhists. And in those days naturally their rivalry between the Buddhists and Christians, so even playing sports there were rivalry.
>> Carlene Tinker: Is that right?
>> Gary Tsudama: Yes. It's sad to say, but then now in Fresno I was happy because the Boy Scouts at the Christian church and the Buddhist church joined together and they made one troop.
>> Carlene Tinker: Oh.
>> Gary Tsudama: Which is good.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.
>> Gary Tsudama: The Girl Scouts did that too.
>> Carlene Tinker: Is that right?
>> Gary Tsudama: Yeah, so.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah.11
>> Gary Tsudama: They're together.
>> Carlene Tinker: That's right. That's the way it should be.
>> Gary Tsudama: It should be, right.
>> Carlene Tinker: Definitely. Yeah, I know that you currently go to the Buddhist Temple here.
>> Gary Tsudama: Right.
>> Carlene Tinker: Right? And you sing in the choir right?
>> Gary Tsudama: Yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: Yeah. Did you always like to sing?
>> Gary Tsudama: Yes. In fact, in my high school the last year, I was finished with all my requirements, I took Acapella choir there. And then I was singing in a big group and then the teacher came behind me and tapped me and said, "You're not a bass. You're a tenor."[brief laughter] So, for me the tenor section.
>> Carlene Tinker: Are you still a tenor?
>> Gary Tsudama: No. I'm bass now.
>> Carlene Tinker: You are bass now. I can tell that right there, yeah.
>> Gary Tsudama: So.
>> Carlene Tinker: Getting back to the store, were your customers most; that was what I was trying to remember, were your customers mostly Japanese Americans?
>> Gary Tsudama: Yes.
>> Carlene Tinker: Or were there Caucasians as well?
>> Gary Tsudama: There were Hispanics.
>> Carlene Tinker: Oh, Hispanics.
>> Gary Tsudama: Because in our area was Japanese, Chinese, Spanish, Italians and Blacks.
>> Carlene Tinker: No kidding?
>> Gary Tsudama: Yeah.
>> Carlene Tinker: Not very many if, very few Caucasian? Is that right?
>> Gary Tsudama: Right, so.
>> Carlene Tinker: Did your father have any difficulties collecting money, getting money from any group?
>> Gary Tsudama: That's the thing. He had no problem except he--he had a charge account for the people out on the farms, because when we went to sell food out there, once or twice a week we used to take our truck, take the truck out to the farmers and the Japanese farmers sell them bread, milk, and whatever they wanted. They order it and we take them. So, they would sign a 12
ticket, but when the evacua
Oral History Interview: Gary LaMere (1290)
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Letter from Governor Raymond Gary to Cyrus S. Avery, in response to a news article from the Tribune in reference to U.S. 66.The Cyrus S. Avery Collection chronicles the life and times of Cyrus Stevens Avery. Known as the 'Father of Route 66', Avery served in government positions and elected offices as well as in highway associations that led him to have an influential impact on the planning and development of the initial American highway system. Through Avery's involvement with the City of Tulsa, Oklahoma and his own agricultural interests, the collection also documents a growing city and its' rural life in the early twentieth century
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