37 research outputs found
Dr. Robert Threatt, Interviewed by Loretta Parham, September 24, 2012
No full textVideo interviews with a complementing monograph providing reflections of former presidents of Historically Black Colleges and Universities discussing leadership, mission, challenges, successes, and issues of race and education. Interviewer: Loretta Parham, CEO & Library Director, Atlanta University Center Robert W. Woodruff Library. Interviewee: Dr. Robert Threatt, President, Morris Brown College 1973-1991
Dr. Robert M. Franklin Jr., Interviewed by Loretta Parham, August 18, 2012
No full textVideo interviews with a complementing monograph providing reflections of former presidents of Historically Black Colleges and Universities discussing leadership, mission, challenges, successes, and issues of race and education. Interviewer: Loretta Parham, CEO & Library Director, Atlanta University Center Robert W. Woodruff Library. Interviewee: Dr. Robert M. Franklin Jr., President, Interdenominational Theological Center 1997-2002; President, Morehouse College 2007-2012
Dr. Robert L. Albright, Interviewed by Dr. Barbara R. Hatton, August 14, 2012
No full textVideo interviews with a complementing monograph providing reflections of former presidents of Historically Black Colleges and Universities discussing leadership, mission, challenges, successes, and issues of race and education. Interviewer: Dr. Barbara R. Hatton, President, South Carolina State University 1992-1995, President, Knoxville College 1997-2005. Interviewee: Dr. Robert L. Albright, President, Johnson C.Smith University 1983-1994
Robert Wert oral history interview, Origins of The California State University, 1988
No full textOral history interview with a primary focus on the origins of the California State University System and the 1960 master plan for California higher education. Wert represented the independent or private institutions on the Master Plan Survey Team in 1959.Transcripts and cassette tapes of oral history interviews with various individuals involved in the formation of the California State University system.Origins of
The California State
University
Robert Wert
Interviewed
by
Judson A. Grenier
An Oral History Project
of the
Archives
California State University Archives
CSU Dominguez Hills
CALIFORNIA STATE UNIVERSITY ARCHIVES
Oral History Pilot Project on the Origins of the CSU System
ROBERT WERT
CREATING THE MASTER PLAN:
AN INDEPENDENT COLLEGE PERSPECTIVE
Interview Conducted by
Judson A. Grenier
1988
Processed by CSU Fullerton Oral History Program
1989
COPYRIGHT
This is a transcription of an interview conducted for the
California State University Archives under a grant from the
Office of the Chancellor, CSU.
Scholars are welcome to utilize short excerpts from any of
the transcriptions without obtaining permission as long as
proper credit is given to the interviewee, interviewer, and the
institution sponsoring the project. All uses of this
manuscript are covered by a legal agreement between the CSU
Archives and the interviewee. Therefore, scholars must obtain
permission from California State University Archives before
making more extensive use of the transcription and related
materials.
None of these materials may be duplicated or reproduced by
any party except the California State University Archives.
However, because it is the goal of this project to preserve and
make accessible significant documentation relevant to the
history of the State Colleges, copies of any unrestricted
transcriptions may be obtained at cost by writing to the CSU
Systemwide Archivist at California State University, Dominguez
Hills, Carson, California, 90747.
Copyright © 1989 by the Board of Trustees
of The California State University
PREFACE
The purpose of this oral history pilot project is to
record and make available to researchers using the California
State University Archives the reminiscences of individuals who
participated in the creation of the California State Colleges
from 1959 to 1965.
The creation of the California State Colleges in 1961
united fifteen formerly independent colleges into a single,
identifiable system, with its own Board of Trustees and a
Chancellor to serve as chief executive officer. Using a
formula which stressed systemwide planning in the allocation of
resources and programs, The California State Colleges sought to
offer Californians quality higher education at reasonable
cost. The key to the success of the California State
University was the decision to adapt a plan, incorporated into
the Donahoe Higher Education Act of 1960, dividing higher
education into three distinctly separate segments. Under the
act, the California State Colleges were mandated to emphasize
undergraduate and master’s level programs, while the University
of California campuses were to emphasize graduate education,
and the California Community Colleges were to focus on
vocational training and college preparation.
The California State University, starting from a base of
fifteen campuses and 95,000 students in 1961, has grown to
where it now provides a wide variety of innovative programs to
more than 320,000 students on nineteen campuses. It is the
largest system of higher education in the United States and is
known as one of the strongest institutions of higher education
in the country.
In September 1979, the Board of Trustees created the
California State University and Colleges Historical Archives,
to be housed on the Dominguez Hills campus. Since its
establishment, the Archives, as a systemwide project, has been
jointly supported by the Chancellor’s Office and CSU Dominguez
Hills, through the funding of a professional archivist.
The Archives currently houses a collection of materials
received from a variety of sources. These include the
Chancellor’s Office, the CSU Academic Senate, and private
individuals who had previous dealings with the CSU, such as
former Chancellor Glenn Dumke, former Trustee Paul Spencer, and
others. Consequently, the Archives holds some personal papers
as well as official systemwide documents. As part of its
collection policy, the Archives also has a responsibility to
collect individual recollections and oral histories of the
early System and pre-System years.
m
Short-term goals of this oral history project are to make
available the recollections and reminiscences of former members
of the Board of Trustees, the State College-University of
California Liaison Committee, and the Master Plan Survey Team,
as well as other individuals who participated in the formation
of the California State Colleges from 1959 to 1965.
For the long run, the project has three purposes. First,
it will help to increase interest in the history and
accomplishments of the California State University. Next, it
will, hopefully, be a tool to aid in the acquisition of
additional materials concerning the System now in private
hands. Finally, it will serve as a model and learning device
to develop a more comprehensive oral history program. If the
pilot project is successful, as many interviews as possible
will be conducted under the expanded program with the System’s
retired trustees, former vice-chancellors and college
presidents, current senior management, state legislators, and
other important individuals who have been influential in the
growth and development of the state university.
Funding for the project is provided by the Office of Vice
Chancellor, Administration, Dr. Herbert L. Carter. We thank
the interviewee for generously giving of his time. We also
acknowledge the work of the Oral History Program at CSU
Fullerton for the use of its facilities in processing this
interview. Transcribing was performed by Shirley de Graaf,
proofreading and index by Lynn Finger, and final preparation by
Shirley de Graaf.
Lawrence B. de Graaf Jacquelyn K. Sundstrand
Judson A. Grenier CSU Archivist
Project Co-Directors
MEMBERS, CSU ARCHIVES ADVISORY BOARD
Betty Blackman
John Brownell
Mayer Chapman
Robert W. Cherny
Lawrence B. de Graaf
Glenn S. Dumke
Donald R. Gerth
Judson Grenier
Arthur Hall
Claudia H. Hampton
James Harris
Louis H. Heilbron
Donald B. Leiffer
Gloria Lothrop
Theodore Meriam
Carol J. Numrich
Morris Polan
W. Ann Reynolds
Phillip V. Sanchez
John Smart
Jacquelyn K. Sundstrand
IV
CALIFORNIA STATE UNIVERSITY ARCHIVES
ORAL HISTORY PILOT PROJECT ON THE
ORIQINS OF THE CSU SYSTEM
This interview with Dr. Robert Wert [RW] was conducted at his
hone in San Raphael on June 23, 1988. Dr. Wert represented the
independent, or private institutions on the Master Plan Survey
Team in 1959. And subsequently he served as first chairman of
the Coordinating Council from 1960 to 1962. The interviewer is
Judson Grenier [JG].
JG: We usually like to start these interviews with a little
biographical material. I wonder if you could tell me
where you were born and reared.
RW: Yes, sure. I was born in a little place called Harrison,
Idaho, which was a lumbering town.
JG: Harrison?
RW: Yes, in the panhandle of Idaho on Lake Coeur d'Alene. I
moved to Spokane, Washington at about one year old and
grew up there. I went through Catholic elementary school
and Jesuit high school, two years of college there at
Gonzaga University, a Jesuit institution, and transferred
to Stanford, and graduated from Stanford in 1943.
JG: That was right during the war.
RW: Right during the war. I had been in a navy V-7 program
which allowed me to graduate before going to Midshipman
school. And after graduation I did go to Midshipman
school and was transferred out of the line navy to the
Naval Supply Corps and sent to the Harvard Business School
for a year, where we combined a full academic year's work
in business and the supply and disbursing work for the
navy. After that I went to sea on a destroyer escort, the
Ulvert M. Moore, E442, which I mention because it was
commanded by Franklin Roosevelt, Jr., the son of the
president of the United States. We were at sea about a
year in the Pacific, and the war then ended. I returned
to Spokane where I was in a family lumber business for
three years. After three years, for various reasons, my
wife and I decided to move back to Stanford, where I went
to graduate school. I finished up an M.B.A. in 1950. I
was one of the earlier Ph.D.s in higher education under
Dr. W. H. Cowley, with a Ph.D. in 1952. I went to work
immediately as assistant to the president at Stanford and
remained in that job for three years. The Carnegie
WERT 2
Corporation of New York, an educational foundation, aaked
me to join them, and 1 did so in 1954. We lived in
Connecticut and I worked in New York for five years,
having the general supervision of the Carnegie
Corporation’s Granting Program in the fields of higher
education and the improvement of undergraduate education.
After five years of incessant traveling, mostly in the
United States visiting college and university campuses, we
returned to Stanford, where I became Vice Provost and
Professor of Education. That was in 1959. Shortly after
returning to Stanford I was asked to become a member of
the Master Plan Team for Higher Education, and that brings
us up to the topic of the day.
JG: Could I back up and ask a few things? Did you by any
chance know Leo Cain when he was at Stanford?
RW: Yes. Not well, but I knew him.
JG: Did you have any opportunity while you were Vice-Provost
at Stanford to look into the operations of the state Board
of Education, or the state Department of Education?
RW: No, not really.
JG: So you had no prior experience with that operation?
RW: The only prior experience I had with Sacramento was that
very soon after we came back to California in 1959
Governor Brown appointed me a member of the State
Scholarship Commission. And 1 served on that commission
all during the Master Plan Team period. I resigned the
commission at the time I was appointed president of the
Coordinating Council for Higher Education because I
couldn’t hold two state offices at the same time.
JG: Why do you suppose Governor Brown appointed you to the
State Scholarship Commission?
RW: I really don’t know. The only inkling I have came from
Elinor Heller, a long-time Democratic National
Committeewoman from Atherton, who was a personal friend
of mine. And I know that Brown had checked thoroughly
with her. Now whether she or her husband, Ed Heller, then
a regent of the University, had put my name in to Brown I
don’t know.
JG: But it might have been?
RW: It might have been, yes.
WERT 3
JG: When did you first get wind that . . . well, as you know,
it was the legislature that asked the Liaison Committee
between the Board of Regents and the Board of Education to
set up this Master Plan Survey Team. Was there anything
in the wind in the field of higher education to indicate
that something like this was necessary?
RW: Yes, there was, indeed. The competition between the state
colleges and the University and the junior colleges— I use
the old-fashioned terms, 1 believe they were accurate
terms for the time— before the state legislature and the
governor’s office, and in general throughout the state,
was becoming nearly out of control. Every state college
was up in the legislature doing its own lobbying, the
University branches that existed then were doing the
same. The junior colleges were going up there in small
armies. It seemed very clear, even to those of us well on
the outside of the state systems, that we were approaching
nearly a state of anarchy, and that this unbridled,
unsupervised competition was going to be deleterious to
the health of the higher educational systems in the state
if something were not done. So that many of us who were
reasonably informed but outside the publie-supported
institutions, knew.
JG: Were the private institutions concerned about this
rivalry, that they might be affected by it as well?
RW: I don’t recall any grave concern. I think there was a
kind of a, well, not concern, but a general knowledge that
all was not well. The private institutions in those days,
I think, did not pay significant attention to the public
institutions.
JG: They weren’t surprised when a favored legislator could get
a state college established in a place like Turlock?
RW: Well, they may have been, but I didn’t hear much about it
if they were.
JG: Did you know Arthur Coons before?
RW: Yes, I had known Arthur when I worked at the Carnegie
Corporation. He came into our office every time he came
east. I was responsible for making either one, for sure,
or possibly two grants to Occidental College during the
five years I was at Carnegie. So both at the college, and
in New York I
somewhat.
did get to know Arthur. Not well, but
JG: Glenn Dumke
Carnegie.
also was at Occidental when you were with
WERT 4
RW: That * s correct. He was dean of the faculty then. And I
got to know Qlenn somewhat, too.
JQ: Do you think your Carnegie work helped acquaint you with
many of the educational leaders?
RW: No question. I did nothing but travel and go to
educational meetings. As you already know, I knew Clark
[Kerr], I knew Glenn Dumke. I had known Clark Kerr for
quite a few years.
JG: How did you meet Clark Kerr?
RW: Clark, as I remember, was on the board of the Carnegie
Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching, which was
allied to the Carnegie Corporation. As president of the
University of California he was around our office quite a
bit. In any event, I knew Clark quite well by the time I
came to California.
JG: Were you a specialist in higher education?
RW: Yes, I was. You might be interested; my thesis was a
history of the reorganizations of Harvard University in
the nineteenth Century. The thesis was read not only in
the school of education at Stanford, but also by the
history department.
JG: Good. So you’d been interested in the organization of
higher education over three hundred years?
RW: That’s right.
JG: Did you know that there was a Master Plan Survey Team
being set up before you were called?
RW: No. I don’t believe I was aware of it. I have forgotten
now who originally got in touch with me, but I had always
surmised that Clark Kerr was the person probably behind it.
JG: Because you didn’t know Roy Simpson at that time?
RW: No. In any event, I have forgotten whether Clark or
someone else called me and asked me if I would be able to
serve. I checked with President [Wallace] Sterling at
Stanford, and Provost Terman, and they said, "Fine, no
problem." So when asked I said, "Great, I’ll serve. I’ll
be glad to."
JG: Who called you?
WERT 5
RW: I don't really remember who called me. If anybody did, I
think it was Clark, but I'm not positive.
JG: Was it understood that you were to represent the point of
view of the independent institutions?
RW: That's correct, I was to represent the private
institutions.
JG: Were you also to be kind of objective?
RW: No, I think that role came upon me, and I might say came
upon Arthur Coons, who was chairman, because we really
didn't have any access to Brown. And I always saw myself,
and I know Arthur saw himself, as being objective people,
listening to arguments from all sides but favoring no one
in particular, being opposed to no one in particular. And
inasmuch as we had nothing in particular to ask for, and
in view of our own backgrounds, it seemed a very
appropriate role to play at the time. And since, I might
say.
JG: In his book Arthur Coons said he told Kerr and Simpson
that he didn't want to be a representative of the private
institutions of higher education because he was going to
be chairman of the committee, and he thought he might have
to put forward his own Master Plan.
RW: In that he was absolutely correct. I think it would have
tainted his position as chairman, if he also represented
someone.
JG: But at that point the committee agreed unanimously that
you would be the person.
RW: I had forgotten that, that does recall it to me.
JG: So apparently you had widespread support across all the
segments.
RW: I'm glad of that. I might say just incidentally, that
Arthur and I did not press for anything on behalf of the
California state independent colleges until the last
meeting of the committee. I don't recall if either of us
ever asked for anything. We asked for an expansion of the
California State Scholarship Commission and a new
California state graduate fellowship program at the last
meeting of the Master Plan Committee. And both were
approved by our colleagues.
JG: Let me ask you about some of the other members of the
committee?
WERT 6
RW: Yes.
JG: Do you have any recollections of the segmental
representat ives?
RW: Oh, sure.
JG: The roles that they played.
RW: Yes.
JG: The community college representatives?
RW: Henry Tyler, of course, was looked upon by me, and I
assume the rest of the committee, as the representative of
the California Junior Colleges, and a member of the
committee just as Dumke was or McHenry was. The others, I
certainly remember all of them, sure.
JG: Did you consider Dean McHenry to be more or less Clark
Kerr’s spokesperson?
RW: I considered Dean to be a representative of the University
of California, and as such, the spokesperson for the
president of the University, or the Board of Regents, or
whomever he was representing from day to day.
JG: He told me that occasionally he had to make a phone call.
RW: He did occasionally. And then, of course, Dean has been
noted for many years of taking copious notes, all of which
he now tells me are in the Bancroft Library. Some day I
would like to go over and read them if I can decipher
them.
JG: And Glenn Dumke representing the state colleges. There
was also a specialist in higher education, Arthur Browne.
RW: Yes, I knew Arthur as well. I don’t know how the other
members of the committee perceived it, but it seemed to
me, I looked upon Arthur and Tom Holy from the University
of California as the staff people, and certainly not as
voting members of the committee. They were there at every
meeting. They certainly could be influential with their
bosses, so to speak, but I did not consider that they were
voting members of the committee as the rest of us were. I
just want to make that differentiation. It seemed to me
that was the way it was.
JG: Did you take votes?
RW: Not really. We didn’t have to.
WERT 7
JG: You reached a consensus most of the time?
RW: It was pretty clear what it was going to be, yes.
JG: Was Keith Sexton also a kind of staff person?
RW: Yes, Keith was there at every meeting, as I recall. He
was, of course, representing the legislature. And Dorothy
Donahoe was a primary legislator of higher education for
the legislature. Keith later on, of course, I put on as
chief of the staff of the Coordinating Council, so I knew
him well for years.
JG: Now you decided early-on that your meetings were not to be
open to the public. Do you think that was a wise decision?
RW: Yes.
JG: Why?
RW: I don’t think we could have accomplished what we did if we
had been in constant wrangling in public meetings. These
matters, in my opinion at the time and now even more, just
could not have been adjudicated as easily, or as well, in
public meetings as they could have in the kinds of
meetings we held, where there was a great amount of give
and take, and no posturing.
JG: To some extent, that is what James Madison said of the
Constitutional Convention.
RW: I understand, yes. I also understand the general view of
the state of California about open meetings, and I’m
certainly not opposed to that view when it comes to public
bodies. But I have never quite considered this plan the
public kind of work that it became later in front of the
legislature or in front of the Liaison Committee, where
the meetings were public.
JG: Occasionally you would have visitors, such as members of
the legislature or Governor Brown’s staff, or someone like
that?
RW: Sure. We just didn’t open it up to anybody who wanted to
come and argue. We were in the position of a working
committee. I think it’s a mistake even to think of the
Master Plan committee as the equivalent of a legislative
committee, which has to operate in public except for
personnel matters. We were not that. We were a working,
hard working I might add, committee due to make a report
to the public agencies of the state of California, where
WERT 8
all the debates and all of the open hearings and so on
could be held.
JG: Where did you usually meet?
RW: We met all over the state. It was a different place
nearly every meeting. We met at state college campuses,
university campuses, motels, airport hotels, in
Sacramento, everyplace.
JG: What about the role of technical committees? Did they
play a major role?
RW: The technical committees developed a great deal of factual
information. We had them, as you recall, in all sorts of
areas, ranging from the economics of higher education to
admissions, and so on. They developed a great deal of
information and data which we used during the course of
our own study, even though the technical reports were not
finished, as I recall, until well along in our
deliberations. But what we would do is get in touch with
the chairman of the committee, for example, Arnold Joyal,
then president of Fresno State, and the chairman of the
economics committee. If we had an economic question we
didn't know the answer to, and it seemed important, Arthur
Coons or somebody would get Joyal on the phone and say,
"Now have you come to this particular thing? What do you
think about it?" And he would get whatever opinion was
then available from Joyal on behalf of the committee. And
we would incorporate that thinking. But by and large, I
would say that mo
Dr. Barbara R. Hatton, Interviewed by Loretta Parham, September 24, 2012
No full textVideo interviews with a complementing monograph providing reflections of former presidents of Historically Black Colleges and Universities discussing leadership, mission, challenges, successes, and issues of race and education. Interviewer: Loretta Parham, CEO & Library Director, Atlanta University Center Robert W. Woodruff Library. Interviewee: Dr. Barbara R. Hatton, President, South Carolina State University 1992-1995; President, Knoxville College 1997-2005
Dr. Joseph B. Johnson, Interviewed by Loretta Parham, September 17, 2012
No full textVideo interviews with a complementing monograph providing reflections of former presidents of Historically Black Colleges and Universities discussing leadership, mission, challenges, successes, and issues of race and education. Interviewer: Loretta Parham, CEO & Library Director, Atlanta University Center Robert W. Woodruff Library. Interviewee: Dr. Joseph B. Johnson, President, Grambling State University 1997-1991; President, Talladega College 1991-1998
Dr. Johnnetta B. Cole, Interviewed by Loretta Parham, June 14, 2012
No full textVideo interviews with a complementing monograph providing reflections of former presidents of Historically Black Colleges and Universities discussing leadership, mission, challenges, successes, and issues of race and education. Interviewer: Loretta Parham, CEO & Library Director, Atlanta University Center Robert W. Woodruff Library. Interviewee: Dr. Johnnetta B. Cole, President, Spelman College 1987-1997; President, Bennett College 2002-2007
Dr. Thomas W. Cole Jr., Interviewed by Loretta Parham, August 19, 2012
No full textVideo interviews with a complementing monograph providing reflections of former presidents of Historically Black Colleges and Universities discussing leadership, mission, challenges, successes, and issues of race and education. Interviewer: Loretta Parham, CEO & Library Director, Atlanta University Center Robert W. Woodruff Library. Interviewee: Dr. Thomas W.Cole Jr. President, West Virginia State College 1982-1986; President, Clark Atlanta University 1989-2002; Interim President, Interdenominational Theological Center 2009-2010
Interview with Alan Pisarski, January 2015
No full textThis document contains the content of an oral history interview and is part of a series of interviews conducted by the Alan M. Voorhees Transportation Center (VTC). These interviews are personal, experiential, and interpretative, reflecting the memories and associations of individuals. All reasonable attempts are made to ensure accuracy, but statements should not be interpreted as facts endorsed by Rutgers University, the Edward J. Bloustein School, or VTC. The associated website also contains links to other resources, but does not endorse or guarantee their content
Interview with Martin Robins, October 2012
No full textThis document contains the content of an oral history interview and is part of a series of inter-views conducted by the Alan M. Voorhees Transportation Center (VTC). These interviews are personal, experiential, and interpretative, reflecting the memories and associations of individuals. All reasonable attempts are made to ensure accuracy, but statements should not be interpreted as facts endorsed by Rutgers University, the Edward J. Bloustein School, or VTC. The associated website also contains links to other resources, but does not endorse or guarantee their content.Transcrip
