1,748,433 research outputs found
Kaye Danielson
No full textKaye with her husband Michael John Danielson and two sons went to the original construction site of Jabiru East in 1978 on the edge of Kakadu National Park. Kaye was asked to clean the school, she set up a business named Jabiru Cleaning Service and cleaned construction worker's quarters, school and gave a final polish to new houses in Jabiru providing employment for numerous persons in Jabiru. Kaye started the Jabiru Cubs and Boys Scouts and was involved in various community groups. 1982, the family moved from Jabiru East into their new home in Jabiru and Kaye's entry into local government, the new Jabiru Town Advisory Council (JTAC) was formed to give residents a say in the running of Jabiru. She was the only female member of Jabiru Town Advisory Council and remained as a councillor until 1984, when JTAC became the Jabiru Town Council.Business Woma
Internview with Stewart Branborg, March 3, 2003, by Roger Kaye (also present: Mrs. Branborg)
No full textOral history interview with Stewart Branborg. Roger Kaye was the interviewer.
Stewart Brandborg was a former Conservation Director of the National Wildlife Federation.
Name: Stewart Brandborg
Keywords: History, Biography, Congressional operations, Connecting people with nature, Forest conservation, Human impacts, Parks, Subpolar environments, Wilderness, Olaus Murie, Howard Zanhiser, Mardy MurieINTERVIEW WITH STEWART BRANBORG
MARCH 3, 2003 BY ROGER KAYE
(Also present, Mrs. Branborg)
MR. KAYE: This is an interview with Stewart Branborg conducted March 3, 2003 in
Darby, Montana by Roger Kaye. Stewart, thank you so much for doing this with me
today. I’d like to ask you to begin with a brief biographical sketch of your background,
where you are from, and how you got into this wilderness work.
MR. BRANBORG: I was raised in a family with a mother and dad who had a great
appreciation for wildlife and wild country. They took me and my sister on major
expeditions into the wilderness of Idaho and western Montana. This partially, or
substantially, I would say, because of my Dad’s service for forty old years in the U. S.
Forest Service here in the Bitter Root. He was Supervisor for twenty years. I was
influenced by a fine biologist at the Rocky Mountain Laboratory, William Jelison, who
took young people, a group of young men into the woods and on to the ranges of our
wonderful game animals. I decided to take up Wildlife Biology. I attended the University
of Montana for my undergraduate work. I became involved with field studies, range and
timber surveys. I had the opportunity to live on wilderness lookouts for a couple of
years. All of this I grew to value more and more through the years. In that process I was
invited to be part of a Mountain Goat life history study. I picked up on that in 1947.
During the next seven years, I devoted a major part of my time research while attending
the University of Idaho, Wildlife Research Unit. It was with the Fish and Game
Departments of Idaho and Montana that I worked on Mountain Goat studies. I had
become an area game Biologist for the northern part of Idaho and I was offered a job with
the National Wildlife Federation in 1954 by Charles Callison, the then Conservation
Director. That took me in to four and a half years of legislative work with Callison
working in all areas of conservation. Particular areas of concern with wildlife and of
course very strong support for the Wilderness bill offered by the Wildlife Federation, lead
by Callison. This put me in contact with Howard Zanhiser in about 1955. I became a
member of the governing council in 1956, of the Wilderness Society. Then, as a part of
the Executive Committee, I worked closely with Zanhiser. I was given great latitude and
freedom to pursue the Wilderness bill in support of the Zanhiser campaign. Indeed the
Wildlife Federation was one of his stalwart organizations that did much to promoting
understanding of the Bill. That took me through some four years with the Federation. In
1960, when the Federation became embroiled in a controversy, Callison and others within
my friendship circle departed. I went to the Society and asked for a job. Zanhiser
encouraged me to be in touch with the then President Harvey Broom. It was decided that
if I could make my magnificent salary of $8000.00 through use of direct mail and other
skills that I had captured at the Federation, I could go to work. So, I was enlisted for a
position as Director of Special Projects, I think the title was. From that after a couple of
years I became Associate Director under Zanhiser and when he succumbed in 1964, in
May, I was appointed to succeed him. The rest is history.
MR. KAYE: So you were Director of the Wilderness Society then?
MR. BRANBORG: I became his replacement in May of 1964, on the eve the final
signing of the Bill in September. It was my task at that point…we had waged this long
campaign from 1956 to 1964. There were seventeen Congressional hearings. There was a
strenuous effort of organize grass roots people for the wilderness cause and in support of
the Bill. It was my task to make people aware that in this great accomplishment of
setting the national policy in a preservation program we had only included some eight
million acres in the wilderness system. All the rest had to come through the laborious
process of public hearings, local studies, the passage of proposals up through the
hierarchy in the agencies and Congress. There would again be a round of hearings to see
the inclusion of these areas into the wilderness system. So that took me into
implementation and what I feel was my contribution; in organizing grass roots teams in
some forty states, in support of wilderness.
MR. KAYE: When you were with the National Wildlife Federation as Conservation
Director you were their representative on the refuge issue. What were some of the things
that you did with the Wildlife Federation in support of the campaign to establish the
Arctic Refuge?
MR. BRANBORG: I of course had fallen under the influence of Howard Zanhiser,
Callison at the Federation, and the Muries. Olaus had come to the University of
Montana in the 1940s to a northwest section meeting of the Wildlife Society. Here was
this sweet, humble epitome of a fine biologist.
The infusions from Olaus and Zanny I think crystallized by thinking about the
rich experience I had had in the backcountry. Those months on the lookout, and working
on trail and telephone line and wild country, and the great trips that I had had with my
family. It gave a framework for something that was deep in my psyche, my life. But
here it was brought together that needed our best effort to realize protection of all of the
unique things that we had experienced in the wild setting. I was working under Callison
on legislation, on educational campaigns. I am sure that part of my job was to make
contact with those members of Congress and their staffs to give them background on the
Arctic Range, and to support this effort. Of course in effective lobbying, the best job you
can do is to say, “Here in Olaus Murie. Here is Mardy Murie.” I had the realization of
the value of those people, so wherever we could convene good, open minded staff people,
members of Congress, House or Senate, we would do that. That was my expertise, not
that I had fully accomplished all that I ultimately as a base of my competence as a
lobbyist. I know that these people had touched me, and as a representative of the
Federation, I could speak with real conviction and eloquence because of my tie to these
spirited people.
MR. KAYE: Interesting! Were the people, the legislators and so on that you lobbied
touched or influenced my the Muries and their philosophy about wilderness?
MR. BRANBORG: Some were. The John Sailers, the Lee Metcalfs, just to name a
couple. In that period, conservation and the environment were not popular causes. You
introduced yourself with your card. The best way to get into a Congressional office was
have people call from the home state, or district saying, “we’re sending in Steward
Branborg to discuss this issue with you.”
MR. KAYE: Oh really?
MR. BRANBORG: I had a lot of background in doing that. So if I really wanted to get
in I would call the local affiliate of the Wildlife Federation; a Sportsmen’s group and say,
“Would you mind writing and or calling that office and telling them we have this
important issue to bring to them?” That would prepare the groundwork. But at that
time, when you walked in you didn’t necessarily get a warm reception if you didn’t have
that kind of introduction. But there were those, lets say epitomized by John Sailor, who
embraced the concept. He knew it and he felt it. And so he would steep in the presence
of Olaus, and Zanny and Mardy. He savored them for what they stood for as people,
and their testimonials. He loved what they spoke for. He sensed the values that they
represented. Some others later, the Udalls, they were good. Senator Nelson was good.
Hubert Humphrey in Minnesota, the first introducer of the Wilderness Bill on the Senate
side. These people had the feeling. They had the measure of the quality of these spirited
folks who spoke for the wilderness. And they themselves sensed what we valued.
MR. KAYE: What did you do as far as your position with the Wildlife Federation to
encourage members to write their Representatives and get involved? Did you have a
campaign to involve members?
MR. BRANBORG: There was a very strenuous campaign particularly as we went into
the hearings for the Wilderness Bill. It was outreach, mobilizing people. In Idaho, as a
matter of fact I was assigned to go with Ted Trueblood with my 35mm slides on the life
history of the Mountain Goat. We held meetings at the Rotary and the schools all the
way from southern Idaho up to Sand Point and the Canadian line in every community we
could reach. It was just proselytizing for the Bill, explaining why it was so very
important to gain its passage. But in every instance, when there was a field hearing, we as
the Wilderness Society would go into the grass roots communities, bring together those
who shared this concern about wilderness. That concern had been nurtured through a
series of mailings that Zanhiser had engineered from Congress, to the citizens using the
mailing list of the Wildlife Federation and most of the conservation groups. They
numbered into the hundreds of thousands as I recall. The Federation was some three
hundred thousand. And there was Audubon, the Sierra Club, the National Parks
Association and other groups. Everybody on those lists had received these descriptions
of the Bill, its purposes, the rationale for its passage, the speeches that were made by
Sailor and Humphrey upon introduction. People had had repeated mailings saying, ‘here
is the Wilderness Bill. Here is the effort that we’re making. Here is why people from all
over the country must be in touch with their members of Congress to voice their
support.’ It was that foundation that gave us the starting point.
MR. KAYE: Was this the same approaching, but probably on a much smaller scale in
your advocacy for the Arctic Wildlife Refuge?
MR. BRANBORG: I think with the Arctic Wildlife Refuge of course you focused on the
key committees in the House and Senate. You focus on those members who will be
friendly. You do that systematic approach. You call and mail to your membership out in
that state, and the key leaders. You say, “Here’s the Arctic. Here’s what it means. Here
are the magnificent dimensions of what it represents for wildlife and wildness.” Then you
have those people apply words of encouragement and pressure to those who are on that
Committee. Of course you are watching that vote. You are going in from the Washington
level to say, “How’s the Congressman doing? What will the Senator do on this?” You are
talking to staff. You are talking to the member. You’re walking with the member to the
House floor or Senate floor. You are catching him wherever you can. But you’re nailing
down his vote. I am damnably sure that was my job on the Arctic, along with Callison
and Zanhiser. The Muries of course were not in the Washington scene except when they
came to visit. I think C. R. Goudermooth, the Wildlife Management Institute, Ira
Gabrielson, I think they were fully in ownership of this campaign. You probably read in
the context of this documentation their testimony. They were working with Zanny, with
Callison in coalition.
MR. KAYE: The document that you point out is a hearing record for a Senate testimony
that you gave on behalf of the National Wildlife Federation in 1959, recommending the
establishment of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. In reading through this, one thing
that interested me was that it was very eloquently written. You are representing a group
that is largely hunters and hunting interests, yet you don’t focus on that as being the
value of setting this place aside.
MR. BRANBORG: I believe that’s because of my own personal feeling and love for the
living creature. The appreciation emanates I believe, from my parents. But having come
out of Wildlife Management schools you know the heavy emphasis on harvest. Having
survived with Annalee on Elk and Deer meet through the winters, and being a hunter, I
was increasingly appreciative of the living creature. While I had to represent the interests
of the hunting community and recognize appropriateness of hunting in specific places, I
didn’t feel in my heart that this was the function of the Arctic; to provide hunting
opportunities any more than any of us emphasized recreation.
MR. KAYE: What did you see as the primary value of what became the Arctic Range?
MR. BRANBORG: I believe I saw through the eyes of Olaus and Mardy the
magnificence of the area, the rich community of wildlife and this spacious, endless
panorama. And here was the community of life and this spectacle, this museum. These
people were so articulate and so persuasive that that influence came on what I had had as
a kid and as a young biologist in the field and it coalesced with all of the things in my
background to make me see that in the wild untrammeled setting we had things that far
transcended the human experience of taking an animal or indulging in one kind of
recreation or another. Putting oneself in that setting as an observer who traveled as
quietly and unobtrusively as he could, but to savor it, to measure it, to watch it and above
all, to leave it untouched as much as humanly possible.
MR. KAYE: In your testimony to the Senate in 1959, you talked about the importance
of an area, “free from man’s domineering influence.” Tell me what you meant by that in
the context of the Arctic Refuge.
MR. BRANBORG: Significant signs of course, of human presence. Really, I get down
to any signs of human presence. What I was thinking about then, I can’t bring back. But
basically, leaving the setting without any signs of having been there, as much as possible.
And I think that is incumbent upon us. And I think that’s the test that we face now.
How do we give support to wilderness with a public that says ‘this is the ultimate
criterion, we will come, we will savor, we will indulge ourselves, but we will leave it
basically untouched’. Well of course it’s almost impossible to not leave some sign. But I
think that that is what I felt at the time, as much as I can project into that time fifty years
ago almost.
MR. KAYE: Your quote, “free of man’s domineering influence’ is very similar to the
Wilderness Act statement of ‘wilderness is in contrast where man and his works
dominate”. It seems like your advocacy for the Arctic Refuge and the Wilderness Act
was very much the same.
MR. BRANBORG: Undoubtedly, because I had been one of the early readers of the
Wilderness Bill drafts. Zanhiser was leaning on me to look for imperfections as he was
looking for people like you in the agencies. There were Dick Griffith, and people in the
Forest Service and many different disciplines to whom he presented the draft of the
Wilderness Bill and asked that they read it and study it. He wanted them to refine the
language and make it as good as they could for the purpose of the wilderness. By this
time almost on the eve of the introduction of the Wilderness Bill, right in this period, I
had been exposed to those words and those thoughts, most of which had fallen from
Zanhiser’s good mental process to the tablet where he did his first draft of the Bill. That
stuff was being fed into my system.
MR. KAYE: I noticed you used the word ‘wildness’ as an adjective, as a descriptive of
the values of this place in some of your writings. Tell me what you meant by ‘wildness’,
and what some of the parts of it are.
MR. BRANBORG: Of course, coming on the scene as a visitor, watching the land within
vision of the magnificent glaciated mountain basin, the meadow, the lichens the mosses,
the Labrador Key, that’s some of the country that we both know. I think there’s in
periods of isolation, when you’re by yourself, you do feel that there is energy and a
presence that is much greater than self. You are just there. You watch and feel this and
you listen and you hear. You marvel at what’s there. And you absorb what’s there to
the best of you ability in the absence of the knowledge of all that goes on within the
lichen or the Lemming, but you are the furry Marmot, the Caribou. It’s enveloping. It
comes over you. You sit and absorb the marvel of it.
MR. KAYE: Is this the wildness of the wilderness that you refer to?
MR. BRANBORG: This is the wildness, yes. No patterns of conformity, no impacts of
human beings are present. The communities of animal and plants, the glacial and
geological forces, they are all there working in their timeless way. Any reflection brings
you to the realization that this is the evolutionary process of life and the landforms. You
are here as an observer. And you are here as a humble agent who gets to see this without
any interference on what is taking place.
MR. KAYE: It’s interesting that you mention the word evolution. Olaus Murie used
that work very often in his wilderness writings. The idea being, let me ask if I understand
Murie correctly from your understanding of him; that a part of the value of this place
would the evolutionary process would be free to continue here unhendering by people.
Was that a value of this place to you?
MR. BRANBORG: I think very definitely. Here is the stop where things are continuing.
The landforms are changing. The animals are changing. The plants are changing, and the
climate may change. It is an epitome of evolutionary process if we can keep our hands
off of it.
MR. KAYE: Does that contribute to the scientific value of the place? Was that a
concern of yours, or a value to this place?
MR. BRANBORG: Yes, I always identified the scientific value, but I recognized that
scientific exploration would pose a threat to wilderness if we got carried away with it.
The intrusion of science in a way that interfered with or inhibited natural evolutionary
process would itself be destructive to the wilderness and the wildness. That was
something that came to us as it is here today. We can’t tolerate intrusions on the
wilderness that are destructive in the name of science.
MR. KAYE: Olaus used the words spiritual value and intangible value quite a bit. Did
this place hold some intangible value for you? I think that some of the values we have
talked about are intangible, but…
MR. BRANBORG: I believe so. Interestingly, in references to spiritual values from
Zanhiser, Murie and the two that I knew the best; Harvey Broom, Sig Olson, Oberholser,
and I am not mentioning others that were rich in their philosophical base and their
spiritual base. I don’t read to remember their references to the deity, to God. But I think
in those people and in myself, there’s a rich spiritual feeling that comes. And some of the
best expressions of that were from Olaus in describing what had happened to him when
he walked around the block waiting for a bus. I think it was in Pennsylvania when he was
on his way to Washington. He met me for dinner with Mardy. He said that he came to a
place were the ‘beautiful leaves of fall had come together.” He looked into that montage,
and he saw that there were transcendent things, beyond us. I remember conversations
with Mardy where said that some of these things that flow together in our lives are by
some design. There is synchronicity. Things come together and are meant to be. Many
times in my life in the Salmon River Canyon and in the high basins of the Bob Marshall or
the Selkirk Mountains of northern Idaho, and I had my wilderness experience in these
areas on my Mountain Goat research that I was doing. I think you feel a spiritual
influence, and I don’t think I’d tie that to any specific higher power. But I felt that there
was a strong spiritual influence. I don’t know that I ever really discussed that with
Howard Zanhiser. We both had spiritual experiences in the Cathedrals of Washington. It
was our habit, when I drove with him to and from work, to stop by the Cathedral, or the
Catholic Shrine and stand in awe within these structures.
Finding ourselves, I guess, in the midst of the flurry to do all of these things for the
Wilderness Bill and the membership of the Wilderness Society and holding the operation
together. Certainly, there was a heavy feeling of spirituality within these rich characters.
Harvey Broom, Howard Zanhiser, Sig Olson, and of course Olaus and Mardy.
MR. KAYE: How about Bob Marshall? You were probably pretty young in his time,
but I know you met him as a child and your father knew him didn’t he?
MR. BRANBORG: Yeah. When Bob Marshall retired from the Forest Service his
brother George had run on to some old notes. Those old notes indicated that there were
five people in the Forest Service that Bob recommended for his replacement in the Office
of Recreation, as the Chief. One of them was my father.
MR. KAYE: Oh really?
MR. BRANBORG: I don’t know whether my dad had been with him on more than the
one occasion when I remember Bob coming to our home. He had hiked from the Salway
River over the Montana Divide, down into Boulder Creek on the west fork of the Bitter
Root in one day. That was a tremendous exertion of forty or fifty miles. His face was
sunburned, and he was at our dining room table when my mother served dinner. I
remember him, I suppose, that would have been in the 1930’s before his death. I think he
passed on in 1939. It would have been in the period of 1935
Kaye Hanchar Interview
No full textInterview with Kaye Hanchar, as part of the Hearing Hazelton History project, managed by the Hazelton Area Historical Association.Attribution incomplet
Recommended from our members
Savremena Muzika Amerika: Danny Kaye
No full textThe music of Danny Kaye is featured in a program apparently broadcast by the Voice of America's Yugoslav Service
Interview with Bella Francis with Roger Kaye, February 26, 1993
No full textOral history interview with Bella Francis and Roger Kaye as interviewer.INTERVIEW WITH BELLA FRANCIS
WITH ROGER KAYE, FEBRUARY 26, 1993
This is Roger Kaye with Bella Francis.
MR. KAYE: Bella, tell me, where were you born?
MRS. FRANCIS: I was born in Orland Park, up the Porcupine River.
MR. KAYE: What year?
MRS. FRANCIS: 1928
MR. KAYE: How long did you stay up there?
MRS. FRANCIS: I stayed up there until 1941.
MR. KAYE: Who were your parents Bella?
MRS. FRANCIS: My father was Charlie Francis. And Blanche is my mother’s name.
MR. KAYE: And you were adopted?
MRS. FRANCIS: I was adopted by my Dad.
MR. KAYE: Who was that?
MRS. FRANCIS: Charlie Strong.
MR. KAYE: Tell me about Charlie Strong.
MRS. FRANCIS: Charlie Strong married Mom when she was very young. He went up
to Orland Park. They had a little trading post there for the people. There was about
eighty people there. A lot of people from all over come there because he had a little store
there.
MR. KAYE: What kind of people came?
MRS. FRANCIS: Well, Indians, and sometimes Eskimos. And a lot from Old Crow.
MR. KAYE: Where did the Eskimos come from?
MRS. FRANCIS: Well, there used to be a lot of Eskimos from up around Artic Village,
up that way.
MR. KAYE: Did you ever talk to them?
MRS. FRANCIS: No. I see them, bit I didn’t talk to them.
MR. KAYE: They didn’t bring kids?
MRS. FRANCIS: No. They didn’t bring no kids. They probably did, but I don’t know
I guess.
MR. KAYE: What was your Dad’s trading post like?
MRS. FRANCIS: Oh it just a log house. There was a drum stove over there to burn
wood. It was just like other stores, you got a counter in there and shelves. He’d get all
his stuff by getting it on a inboard launch and barge nanovik. He would go up the
Porcupine River, that’s how he’d get his stuff up there.
MR. KAYE: Where did he come from?
MRS. FRANCIS: He came from Sweden.
MR. KAYE: What brought him to Alaska?
MRS. FRANCIS: He told me that he just ran away from his family when he was
fourteen year old. Because of the hard times, and there were a lot of them, and he wanted
to go to Alaska. So he made it up to Alaska around the time when he was twenty-five
year old he said.
MR. KAYE: Was he a good father?
MRS. FRANCIS: Oh yeah! He was a really good father. He really brought me up good.
MR. KAYE: Tell me about your mother, where was she from?
MRS. FRANCIS: My mother is from Fort Yukon. They were pretty young too, all of
them, my aunts and uncles they were pretty young when my grandpa, Dick Martin
drownded. So, my grandma had quite a bit of kids to raise up by herself.
MR. KAYE: Did you go to any school up at Old Rampart?
MRS. FRANCIS: We had no school in Old Rampart. There was a school in Fort Yukon,
but my Dad doesn’t want me, and my sisters to go to school. Even though we wanted to.
He doesn’t trust anybody, that’s why he doesn’t want us to go to school in Fort Yukon.
MR. KAYE: Why didn’t he trust people there?
MRS. FRANCIS: Well, thinks we were going to get hurt, and things like that I guess.
MR. KAYE: Did you want to go to Fort Yukon? Was it lonely being way out, way up
the Porcupine, away from the village?
MRS. FRANCIS: Oh no. Oh no. When we were in Fort Yukon, two month out of the
year, we were in a hurry to go back. The reason we were in a hurry to go back was
because we were in a hurry to pick berries, and go fishing and things like that.
MR. KAYE: So, about two months out of the year you spent at Fort Yukon then.
MRS. FRANCIS: Yes, from the first of June to the first of September.
MR. KAYE: Was that to bring furs in and send them out?
MRS. FRANCIS: Yes. He would bring all his furs, and he’d wait for his groceries what
he sent for. All of that got to be taken care of. While we were there in Fort Yukon for
two months people would help him, and he’d take all of the stuff up for the store and for
us. He works year round.
MR. KAYE: Tell me about the boat trip from Old Rampart up to Fort Yukon.
MRS. FRANCIS: That was fun. When the first of June would come we’d like it. Up
there, there were certain kinds of birds that we don’t have up that way, and we see all
that. And we see a lot of people up the Porcupine River at that time. We see villages,
and when we get close to Fort Yukon, we see tents. You know people go out camping in
the springtime for muskrats and ducks, and fishing and everything like that. We really
enjoyed ourselves. And they got in nice in the barge that we won’t be crowded.
MR. KAYE: Tell me about your fathers barge. How big was it? And did he make it
himself?
MRS. FRANCIS: No, there’s a guy named Andy Johnson at Fort Yukon that made it.
SIMON: It was Stanley too.
MRS. FRANCIS: Stanley Luke too.
MR. KAYE: How big was it?
MRS. FRANCIS: Oh I don’t know. How big is it?
MR. KAYE: A wooden barge?
SIMON: Thirty feet, maybe forty.
MR. KAYE: A plank boat?
MRS. FRANCIS: It was a barge.
SIMON: The barge was about forty feet.
MRS. FRANCIS: Yeah, about forty feet.
MR. KAYE: How many people would ride this barge down to Fort Yukon?
MRS. FRANCIS: Lots. A lot of people. We’d pick people up on the way.
SIMON: That barge could hold about twelve tons.
MRS. FRANCES: We would pick them up on the way, that want to go in. Or help them
out because their boat is small. Sometimes they had this small boat. They don’t all have
big boats. So we helped them. You know, you have to take your dogs and all that with
you because there was nobody in the came who will take care of them. You can’t go
without dogs because don’t have no “snow goes” and things like that in those days.
MR. KAYE: So how many people in your family rode the barge to Fort Yukon?
MRS. FRANCIS: My family? All of us.
MR. KAYE: How many, who was that?
MRS. FRANCIS: Oh well, me, and my sisters, and we got one brother. My sister next
to me is Doris, and there’s Jean, and Barbara and Bessie and Dick Strong.
MR. KAYE: And how long would it take to get to Fort Yukon?
MRS. FRANCIS: It’d take about a day and a half.
MR. KAYE: A day and a half. Did he have a motor on the boat? An inboard?
MRS. FRANCIS: Yeah, an inboard.
MR. KAYE: And he had all of the furs that he had traded?
MRS. FRANCIS: Yes.
MR. KAYE: And how many dogs?
MRS. FRANCIS: Oh, a lot of dogs sometimes. I will say maybe over ten.
MR. KAYE: Oh really?
MRS. FRANCIS: Yes.
MR. KAYE: It must have been really crowded.
MRS. FRANCES: No, it’s not crowded.
SIMON: Sometimes there were five families on the barge, dogs and all.
MR. KAYE: Oh really? So, as a little girl when you were living at Old Rampart, what
did you do? How did you spend your days?
MRS. FRANCIS: Oh gee, the days would just go so fast. Normally we would get up
and Dad would talk to us about what we’re supposed to do. Help our mother around the
house. When I was young I didn’t work outdoor too much. And when I got older I
would work out. When we got big enough, maybe around eight or nice year old we
always helped her out with cooking, and sweeping the floors, and things like that. There
was always a lot of things to do. Making beds too. After lunch, then we all get dressed
in all of our furs, and go down to the river and then we’d make our house. All the kids get
on down there. It’s always so windy. The snow would get so hard you can just saw it
out. Saw, it out and get it in a square. And we’d all make a house for ourselves. Just like
we helped our mother, we’d do the same thing at our house. We would get our wooden
knives and carve things.
MR. KAYE: This was a kid’s house?
MRS. FRANCIS: Yeah. Then if we’d get tired of that, we’d get together and we’d slide
down, all the village kids. We’d go way up on the hill and pack the big toboggan up and
we’d all pile in it and slide down. Or we’d play football.
MR. KAYE: Oh really?
MRS. FRANCIS: Oh, sometimes we’d do that until moonlight. Then they’d have to tell
us to come in the house now. Next day, we’d do that again. We had all kinds of games.
MR. KAYE: Tell me about the playhouses that you made as a kid at Old Rampart.
MRS. FRANCIS. Well, the snowdrift would get so hard we’d cut it out. Sometimes we
would saw, or axe and cut it in squares, and pile it up and make a house out of it. Big
enough for two maybe three to sit in it. Some kids make it big, they got a lot of room in
there. After we do that, we’d play in there. We’d carve. Maybe we’d carve doughnuts,
and little biscuits, and plates and pots, and all that. We’d make a stove, and pretend we
were cooking. And there were chairs and tables. We’d make it real nice. Then we
pretended to visit each other, and send a biscuit over to the next snow house. Things like
that. That’s what we’d do.
MR. KAYE: And you had just your brother and sisters to play with at Old Rampart?
MRS. FRANCIS: No. Other village kids too.
MR. KAYE: At Old Rampart?
MRS. FRANCIS: Yeah, at Old Rampart.
MR. KAYE: And these were children of Indians?
MRS. FRANCIS: Yes, all Indian kids. Then you’d get little snacks. Mother would give
us little snacks. Me, I was always getting crackers from the store. Or some kids get
dried, smoked meat. We pass around and share with each other. And we’d chew that.
And we really enjoyed ourself that way.
MR. KAYE: Did you have more store bought things ‘cause your father owned the store?
MRS. FRANCIS: We had more than other kids.
MR. KAYE: More than other kids?
MRS. FRANCIS: Yeah. Because we got it right there you know.
MR. KAYE: Besides you family, your brother and sisters, how many kids lived up at
Old Rampart then?
MRS. FRANCIS: Well, I don’t know, I can’t remember, but just one family was my
husband’s family. When I remember it, I’d say there were about maybe ten boys, ten or
eleven there at one house. Then another family had maybe eight or seven. That was
Cyrus Blakely. Then another family that’s Henry Wilham, he had about seven or eight.
So we’ll say that there’s more kids there than adults. There’s about maybe fifty, sixty
kids. There were a lot of childrens. They did make a log schoolhouse, but they couldn’t
get teacher. They had a hard time. They tried to get a teacher In those days you know,
they had a Chief and Council. Our Chief really tried, but he couldn’t get anybody to
teach. That’s why we couldn’t go to school.
MR. KAYE: Did you plays with dolls when you were a girl?
MRS. FRANCIS: Well, we didn’t have very much toys.
MR. KAYE: You didn’t?
MRS. FRANCIS: Unless our relatives sent us some. I had a china doll but I dropped it
and that was it. We never had Christmas tree. Didn’t have no Christmas tree. And at
Christmas time we had a potlatch we called it. Everybody would get together and eat
together. Then they’d pass out presents. We didn’t have no toys so they’d give us,
sometimes they’d sew things. They would give us, some people would get fur coats, new
ones, and moccasins, mitts, or a scarf. We’d get a lot of goodies though. Hard candy
come in big buckets in those days. And cookies. Cookies come in fifty or maybe sixty
pound box, they come in. All different kind of cookies, real good ones. And all the dried
fruits , they all come in boxes. Raisins come in boxes. Crackers come in boxes.
Everything is boxed. The elderly would get leaf tobacco it come in a box. So, at
Christmas they would have potlatch all the way to New Years. And they have good
time. And they have a dance. They played just like now, a fiddle. They’d have a dance,
and teach the kids how to dance.
MR. KAYE: Really? Where was the dance held?
MRS. FRANCES: They had a dance hall.
MR. KAYE: Really? There in Old Rampart?
MRS. FRANCIS: Yeah. They had a dance hall.
MR. KAYE: How many buildings where there, about, in Old Rampart?
MRS. FRANCIS: Gosh, I don’t know. There was a lot of buildings, but they all went
down.
MR. KAYE: How many would you say, Simon?
SIMON: There was about twelve.
MRS. FRANCIS: But there was more houses that went down. A lot of people stay in
tents in those days. There was a log around the bottom and they staid in tents. Even in a
blow. Even in Fort Yukon they used to do that. They all staid in tents, down in the
village. Nowadays, they don’t do that. You know why they don’t do that? Because
there’s danger nowadays.
MR. KAYE: Oh really?
MRS. FRANCIS: Those days, I remember when we live in the village, everything is
outdoors. Like in front of the door, when they’d come back from hunting, they’d just put
their gun against the wall there. They’d put their gun there, their axe there, their
snowshoes there, till next time they go out again.
MR. KAYE: What did you do for mosquitoes?
MRS. FRANCIS: We had smudge. Up there’s a lot of bluffs, you know. There’s a
certain kind of weeds that grow, like grass just like. They pick that up, and they make a
fire. And they put that on it. That’s what kill mosquitoes. It smelled strong. Like
buhack. The mosquito medicine smelled strong. That what they use.
MR. KAYE: Looking back, what was the biggest hardship of living up there?
MRS. FRANCIS: I don’t know. But sometime it really hard for people. “Cause its kind
of way up, and it’s in a canyon you know. Sometime it’s hard to get food. I mean like
meat and things like that. Or furs.
MR. KAYE: Did you consider life a hardship being so far from town when you were a
girl?
MRS. FRANCIS: That’s true, that’s true. It’s hard to go to town you know. You have
to go all the way with dogs. And sometime the weather is bad.
MR. KAYE: Did you make the trip with dogs from Old Rampart?
MRS. FRANCIS: Oh yeah, a lot of people come from Fort Yukon.
MR. KAYE: What about you? Did you make that trip?
MRS. FRANCIS: No, not me.
MR. KAYE: What did your father do besides trade there? Did he trap at all?
MRS. FRANCIS: He trapped.
MR. KAYE: He trapped which way from Old Rampart?
MRS. FRANCIS: Saminkut, he traps up that way. He traps over to Old Crow, up that
way.
MR. KAYE: Did you ever go with him?
MRS. FRANCIS: No, at that time, I never go with him.
MR. KAYE: You were still very young then?
MRS. FRANCIS: Yeah, very young then. Then when we moved thirty-five mile below
where they call Burnt Paw, when we moved there I was sixteen year old. So then he was
getting ill.
MR. KAYE: Oh, I see.
MRS. FRANCIS: He was getting short of breath. I can’t go out very much. So when he
went out with us, he taught me and my sister how to set trap and all that stuff. What do
to, and all that stuff. We kind of know little bit from before, we see a lot of people do
that in the village. So we start out. And sixteen, seventeen, eighteen and nineteen I trap.
I trap all the way around up the Colling River, over the mountain, all over around there I
trap.
MR. KAYE: Before you tell me about living at Burnt Paw, as far as Old Rampart goes,
didn’t they expand when you were there, and start building houses across the river?
MRS. FRANCIS: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Like some of those houses are very old. There
was about four families. They built across the river, where there was nice timber there.
They make a whole bunch of nice houses there and they move across. All of them got big
family too. And we still stay on this side. A few families stay on this side. Every time
we want to visit we get a little boat and go across the river to visit. We can wait til it
freeze up too. After it freeze up, then we harness up two dogs and we go over.
MR. KAYE: Oh really?
MRS. FRANCIS: We visit like that, even at nighttime. Lot of time, we holler, and we
holler, and tell kids to come over. So they’d do that.
MR. KAYE: Was it dangerous, the Porcupine River? Did anyone drown when you were
there?
MRS. FRANCIS: No, nobody drowned when I was there.
MR. KAYE: So, what year was it when you left Old Rampart?
MRS. FRANCIS: 1941.
MR. KAYE: In 1941. And you moved on to Burnt Paw?
MRS. FRANCIS: Um hum. (agreeing)
MR. KAYE: Why did your father move there?
MRS. FRANCIS: Because he was ill. And it’s really hard for us up there you know,
because it’s canyon, all over. Hard for us. Where we moved to is my uncle’s place, uncle
Richard Martin’s place. He went to the Army, so he want us to move down there. It
more easy.
MR. KAYE: To Burnt Paw?
MRS. FRANCIS: Yes, it’s easier than Old Rampart. That’s why we move.
MR. KAYE: Did you build the cabin that’s there now? At Burnt Paw?
MRS. FRANCIS: Yeah, in 1944 I build it.
MR. KAYE: In 1944. There was a cabin there before?
MRS. FRANCIS: It burned down.
MR. KAYE: It burned down. Where did Burnt Paw get its name from?
MRS. FRANCIS: I guess that long ago when people travel a lot, you know, always
traveling out for food, and for things like that, I guess this one kit, this is what they told
me, that one kit fell on the fire or hot ashes or something and burned the foot.
MR. KAYE: Oh, I see.
MRS. FRANCIS: So, in our language they say “burned foot”. So they just made it Burnt
Paw.
MR. KAYE: So you were about sixteen when you moved to Burnt Paw.
MRS. FRANCIS: Yes.
MR. KAYE: It that about when you started your own trap lines?
MRS. FRANCIS: Yes.
MR. KAYE: Tell me about your trapping. I remember we mapped it, and it was a
tremendous length. Tell me about what you did, and how you went about it.
MRS. FRANCIS: Your mean how I start out?
MR. KAYE: Yes
MRS. FRANCIS: Oh well, before we start out, like we said, on September first we go
back up to village. The first thing we do, is we fish. Put nets in. I put maybe four or five
nets in and try to get fish for the dogs.
MR. KAYE: How many dogs did your family have at this time?
MRS. FRANCIS: I always had nine, nine dogs. The rest of my sisters have dogs too.
We get all the dog feed we can.
MR. KAYE: How many salmon would that be, do you think?
MRS. FRANCIS: For a year?
MR. KAYE: Yes.
MRS. FRANCIS: Oh gee, I don’t know. I can’t guess. But we get a lot of corn meal and
tallows and all that too besides the fish. Probably, maybe eight hundred, a thousand
maybe. We’d get all kinds of fish. Like whitefish. We put fishnet under ice. For eating
and for dogs. My mom fished lots too. Sometimes fish ‘til Christmas. Depends on how
the ice is too, how thick it gets. If it get too thick, then you have to pull your net out.
Then while you’re doing that, you get your wood. We go back, and we get wood.
Maybe three weeks we cut wood. Cut it all up, haul it. When snow come we haul it in.
Then we cut it all up, and then we split it all up. We got to make kitchen wood, we call it
kindling for cooking stove. We don’t have no propane stove. So, then outdoors we put
big tarp over it. That’s for winter. We’d get meat, and caribou and moose. Then we’d get
everything ready. Then, when snow come, when season opened, we fix our toboggan.
Fix all the harness, and all our gears. Mom fixed all our clothes. Then we’d just start off.
MR. KAYE: When you started trapping did you go alone, or did you go with someone?
MRS. FRANCIS: Lot of time my sister went with me.
MR. KAYE: Which one?
MRS. FRANCIS: Doris, she was next to me. She was fourteen year old when she
started. I was sixteen. But, I lost her after about a year. A lot of time I had to go alone.
MR. KAYE: Did you think it unusual for a young girl to have a long trap line ?
MRS. FRANCIS: I think it’s fun. When I see those women go in the races, in the dog
races, I know how they feel. Because I really enjoyed myself when I was out alone. Out
alone, and my dogs. Have a good time with the dogs.
MR. KAYE: Were you ever afraid to go out?
MRS. FRANCIS: Never! Never afraid to go out, never. Because in Colling River,
there’s always a lot of bears. Even my dogs try to pull me in the brush because the first
bear tracks go in the brush you know. I just hold them down. One thing, I was not
afraid.
MR. KAYE: When you trapped alone, how many nights would you be out on the trap
line?
MRS. FRANCIS: I didn’t stay long. The longest I stay out is maybe three nights, or
two nights.
MR. KAYE: I remember when we traced it on a map it was about ninety miles once.
You must have gone a long ways.
MRS. FRANCIS: I do go a long ways when I’m alone. That’s the funnest part. When
you are alone you can go a long ways. When somebody’s with you, gee, you waste a lot
of time. I can go up the Colling River to the cabin just like that, you know. But if my
sister, or mother go with me, gee it’d take all day!
MR. KAYE: Did you stay in tent camps sometimes?
MRS. FRANCIS: Sometime tent camp, sometime little houses. We build one at let’s see,
we build one at Colling River, at Fishkil we build one. That’s one, two, three, four, below
our place, six mile, there’s a house too. So we had about five trapping houses. We had
about two tents.
MR. KAYE: Two tent camps? And how many dogs were you running now?
MRS. FRANCIS: At that time? Nine. I always run nine.
MR. KAYE: You had pretty good fur catches?
MRS. FRANCIS: Oh yeah! Gee. . .
MR. KAYE: What would you catch?
MRS. FRANCIS: Well, one time was pretty good for link, I remember. It was pretty
good for link. And I caught forty-two lynx. And a lot of other animals like fox . . .
MR. KAYE: Was that in one year?
MRS. FRANCIS: One year.
MR. KAYE: And martins?
MRS. FRANCIS: Martins, and the fox, and coyotes.
MR. KAYE: Oh yeah?
MRS. FRANCIS: We had about two or three coyotes one year. And wolverine, things
like that.
MR. KAYE: Did you skin them yourself?
MRS. FRANCIS: No. That’s one thing, I don’t skin them.
MR. KAYE: Who does?
MRS. FRANCIS: I bring them home. My mom does.
MR. KAYE: Oh really?
MRS. FRANCIS: I only thing I don’t like is when we haul it. We have a tough time
when we haul the lynx.
MR. KAYE: Oh, the furs?
MRS. FRANCIS: Yeah, when they’re frozen.
MR. KAYE: Are you using traps, or snares?
MRS. FRANCIS: Everything. Trap and snares. When we trap lynx, we make a house,
and put trap, and then we put s
Faces and Places in Fashion: Michael Kaye
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