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Interview with Gaylord Bober by Dorothy Norton, November 13, 2002, Morris, Minnesota. Also present: Mrilyn Bober
No full textOral history interview with Gaylord Bober. Dorothy Norton was the interviewer.
Mr. Bober discusses how he got started in the wildlife field, why he wanted to work for the federal government, and how things have changed. He also discusses the various duties he had including, law enforcement, banding, and surveys.
Organization: FWS
Name: Gaylord Bober
Years: 1970-2000
Program: Refuges
Keywords: History, Biography, Employees (USFWS), Management, Wildlife management, Shiawassee National Wildlife Refuge, Benson Wetlands Management District (now Morris WMD), Lynn Greenwalt, Military, Waterfowl, Law enforcement, Banding, Fort Carson, Jack Frye, Janice Turner, Jerry Updike, Forrest Carpenter, Goodman Larson, Morris Wetland Management District, Bicentennial Land Heritage ProgramINTERVIEW WITH GAYLORD BOBER
BY DOROTHY NORTON, NOVEMBER 13, 2002
MORRIS, MINNESOTA
ALSO PRESENT; MARILYN BOBER
MS. NORTON: Good morning Gaylord, it’s nice to meet you. We’ll do this interview,
which will then go in to the Training Center and will be transcribed and put into the
Archives. The first think I want to know is your birthplace and date.
MR. BOBER: I was born on May 26, 1942 in Jackson, Michigan.
MS. NORTON: What are your parents’ names?
MR. BOBER: My father is Floyd Bober. My mother is Gladys.
MS. NORTON: What was their education and jobs?
MR. BOBER: My dad was an electrician. I think he worked for about forty-five years
as an electrician. My mother was a Registered Nurse.
MS. NORTON: That’s good! Where did you spend your early years?
MR. BOBER: All in Jackson, Michigan.
MS. NORTON: How did you spend your early years? What did you do?
MR. BOBER: The same things most people do. I went to school. When I was a kid I
did a lot of hunting and fishing. I worked in a neighbor’s apple orchard.
MS. NORTON: What high school did you got to? What year did you graduate?
MR. BOBER: Napoleon High School. It’s a little town south and east of Jackson. I
graduated in 1960.
MS. NORTON: Did you go to college then?
MR. BOBER: I went to junior college in Jackson then. After that I went to Michigan
State University.
MS. NORTON: What degree did you get?
MR. BOBER: I got a double major. I got a degree in Conservation Education and
Wildlife Management. I finished in about 1965.
MS. NORTON: Did you go on for a Master’s or a Ph. D., or anything?
MR. BOBER: I was thinking about it, but I got drafted into the Army. It was right
during the middle of Vietnam at that time.
MS. NORTON: So, you were in the Army?
MR. BOBER: Oh, definitely!
MS. NORTON: How many years?
MR. BOBER: I can tell you exactly; two years, ten months and seven days!
MS. NORTON: What were your duty stations?
MR. BOBER: I went to basic training and advanced individual training at Fort Dix, New
Jersey. I went to the Infantry OCS at Fort Benning, Georgia. I was commissioned as a
Second Lieutenant in the Chemical Corps. Then I went to Fort McClellan, Alabama for
training as a Chemical Officer. I was sent to Fort Carson, Colorado. I spent about a year
and ten months there. Most of that time I was actually the Fish and Wildlife Manager of
Fort Carson. I kind of lucked out. I was teaching at the Chemical School at Fort Carson
and the officer they had as the Fish and Wildlife Manager got shipped to Vietnam. Talk
about the luck of the draw! They just started going through officer’s records looking for
somebody that was qualified to be the Fish and Wildlife Manager. I am lucky that my
name started with “B”. They got to the B’s and found me.
It was just like working for FWS, being in the military.
MS. NORTON: You didn’t have any overseas duty?
MR. BOBER: Nope.
MS. NORTON: Did your military service relate in any way to your employment with
FWS? I guess it kind of did, huh?
MR. BOBER: Right, I spent a year and a half as the Fish and Wildlife Manager at Fort
Carson.
MS. NORTON: When you were in school, did you have any mentors or courses that
especially stuck with you?
MR. BOBER: There was a fellow at junior college that taught Ornithology. His name
was Robert Whiting. He was a fantastic field biologist. I just enjoyed him. I think all of
the students that had him did. I spent a lot of time in the field with him; watching and
observing the birds.
MS. NORTON: That’s good. Can you tell me how, when and where you met your
wife?
MR. BOBER: I met her on a blind date at Michigan State University. It must have been
1962 or 1963 when we met. We got married on April 4, 1964 at the Catholic Student
Center, just off of campus at Michigan State.
MS. NORTON: Do you have any children?
MR. BOBER: We have two sons.
MR. NORTON: What are their names? What are they doing now?
MR. BOBER: Michael is working in Minneapolis now. He lives in Lanoka. [?] He’s the
youngest. The oldest son is Curke. He is presently driving a truck for a living. Previous
to that he worked for a private company that ran prisons. He was in charge of
maintenance. He was at three of them. He was at Appleton, which is just south of here.
Then he was in Burlington, Colorado and another place in southern Georgia. He married a
girl with three children. They ended up coming back here, and he’s kind of between jobs
right now.
MS. NORTON: Why did you want to work for the FWS when you first got out of
college?
MR. BOBER: I wanted to work with wildlife. You either worked for one of the states,
or you worked for the federal government. I preferred the federal government because
they mainly worked with waterfowl. That was my main interest. I had a good friend
from college who was presently, when I got out of the military…. Well, let me back up.
Before I went in to the military, we went a visited a friend of mine who was working at
Seney National Wildlife Refuge. His name was Jerry Updike. When I got out of the
military, we went and visited Jerry on the way back from Colorado. Jerry was in North
Dakota. I had sent all of my applications in to the various regional offices and Jerry
suggested that I stop in Minneapolis on the way through. I did and I had an interview
with Forrest Carpenter and Goodman Larson. I spent about half of a day there in the
regional office. Then, I went back to Michigan and went to work. About three weeks
later, Forrest Carpenter’s assistant called up and asked me if I’d like to work for FWS. I
said, “Sure!” Next thing I knew, Jack Frye from Shiawassee called me. I went up and
interviewed with him. The regional office had already made up its mind that that’s where
I was going to be.
MS. NORTON: So, that was your first position with FWS?
MR. BOBER: Right, at Shiawassee National Wildlife Refuge.
MS. NORTON: Where did you go from there?
MR. BOBER: Well, from there, I went back to the military. They called me up from
Fort Carson and asked if I’d come back and be the Fish and Wildlife Manager of Fort
Carson as a civilian. The FWS was going through very bad economical times at that time.
In fact, they were mothballing from refuges. I was at Shiawassee and they had eliminated
the manager’s position at Atawaphenwa Refuge [?] That refuge was actually being
managed from Shiawassee. It was almost impossible to get transferred. So we had
adopted our oldest son at that time, and we wanted to adopt another child. Colorado had
children. Michigan did not, at that time. So everything worked out good to go back to
Colorado.
MS. NORTON: When you finished that you can back to the FWS?
MR. BOBER: Right. I went to the Benson Wetlands Management District, which
became the Morris WMD.
MS. NORTON: What were the pay and benefits like?
MR. BOBER: When I started at Shiawassee as a GS-5 the benefits weren’t bad, but the
pay was very, very low. Shiawassee is in the Saginaw/Flint area of Michigan. At that
time you could have made substantially much more money than I was making, as a college
graduate. You could have made more money sweeping the floors for General Motors. In
fact, those people who worked for GM lived much better than we did as federal
employees. They had full health benefits. If you went in to a drug store to get a
prescription at that time, the first thing they’d ask you was if you worked for General
Motors! If you did, you’d give them your little card and you had all of your bills paid in
total.
MS. NORTON: Did you socialize with the people that you worked with?
MR. BOBER: At Shiawassee I spent a lot of time with Jack Frye and his wife. They
had some really nice kids. I spent a lot of time with some of the state officers that I
worked with; primarily, the state conservation officers. We also spent a lot of time with
one of the clerks. She came on to the Refuge after a time. Her name was Janice Turner.
MS. NORTON: Did you have promotion opportunities when you first started?
MR. BOBER: It used to be that you had to move if you wanted to get promoted.
They’d start you out at GS-5 and you could get maybe up to a GS-7 where you were,
then you’d have to move. That’s what happened to me. I moved to the Department of
Defense and got a GS-9. Then I came back into the FWS as a GS-9 at Benson.
MS. NORTON: What did you do for recreation when you were out at the different
refuges?
MR. BOBER: At Shiawassee we worked so much, we….
MS. NORTON: That was your recreation!
MR. BOBER: Yeah! I never hunted when I was at Shiawassee. I fished a little bit.
During the hunting season at Shiawassee, they had all of these managed hunting programs.
Goose hunting would start about first of October and go until close to the fifteenth of
November. It was seven days a week. We’d sign goose hunters in, usually well before
daylight. We had a drawing for which blind they’d have in the morning. So you had the
goose hunters in, and you had to check them out too. The whole staff just about, was
involved in that project. That’s would take care of the first day of the fall. Then, half of
the refuge was opened to gun, deer hunting. There were only three of us who had law
enforcement authority. We pretty much kept track of the deer hunters for fifteen days.
Then you got to December the 1st. At that time Shiawassee had a managed archery hunt,
where the entire refuge was open because the deer herd was very large and they were
trying to keep the population down. We had two weeks of deer hunting. So the fall
season at Shiawassee were….
MS. NORTON: So that really was your recreation!
MR. BOBER: You managed hunters. That’s basically what you did for two months.
MS. NORTON: How did your career affect your family?
MR. BOBER: I think we lived in nice spots. We didn’t get rich, but we made enough
money to support the family. My oldest boy especially likes the out of doors. He likes
to hunt and fish. He still does. He loves western Minnesota, and doesn’t want to leave
it, even though the job opportunities out here aren’t very great, here in the hinterland, so
to speak.
MS. NORTON: So you left the FWS when you retired? When was that?
MR. BOBER: Right. I retired two years ago. [1999-2000]
MS. NORTON: What was your grade and title when you retired?
MR. BOBER: I was a GS-12. I was principle Assistant Manager at the Morris Wetland
Management District.
MS. NORTON: What kind of training did you received for your jobs?
MR. BOBER: Compared to now, some of it was very funny; ridiculous almost. I
remember the day that I started for Jack Frye. That would have been in about 1972 or
someplace back in there. Jack gave me a badge and a gun and said, “By the way, you have
law enforcement. Put the gun in the desk drawer, and I’ll tell you when you can take it
out.” I started working for Jack Frye in February of 1970. [Mr. Bober has been looking
through papers.] During the first fall that I worked for Jack, he sent me out with a lot of
state conservation officers. I kind of got some on the job law enforcement training.
That’s king of the way they did it back in those days. Later, when I came to the Morris
WMD, in 1977, they finally gave me some official law enforcement training. They sent
us to FLETC, the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center for three weeks. They ran
everybody who was doing law enforcement through down there and we all got three
weeks of it. Also that spring, they had what they called a Refuge Manager’s Academy.
They were mainly trying to train GS-5s and 7s. But there was a big bunch of GS-9s who
had never been to a Refuge Academy and so they had one class for GS-9s that I attended.
That was in Beckley, West Virginia at the Bureau of Mines training facility.
MS. NORTON: What hours did you work? On the refuge it was probably twenty-four
hours a day.
MR. BOBER: When I was Shiawassee, there was a lot of hunting in the fall at that time.
And like I say, during a couple of those years there was a big banding program where we
were banding a lot of geese. So we put in some long days. It was enjoyable work though.
One year, there was a biologist named Jerry Cummings who was sent up from the Mark
Twain Refuge. There was a big study of the Tennessee Valley Authority goose flock.
We were supposed to band eight thousand birds, and we came close to it. For the flock of
birds, the population wasn’t going, or increasing as fast as they were hoping it would.
We were banding a lot of birds because they were trying to figure out where the mortality
was taking place. As we began to band the birds, so many of them were re-traps; meaning
that they had already been banded, but nobody had ever been able to get the data all
together and look at it. I remember Jerry went to the bird-banding laboratory in
Maryland and he got the computer tapes. Nobody on the east coast had time to run the
tapes to look at the data so the FWS paid Perdue University to process the tapes. They
found out that the birds were being heavily over-shot at that time, in southern Illinois.
MS. NORTON: I remember some of that from working in law enforcement! What tools
or instruments did you use in your jobs?
MR. BOBER: In the early days we didn’t have a lot of the tools that we ended up with
later in my career. It was a pair of binoculars and a pair of hip boots, a paper and pencil.
Later in my career, computers came in. I remember that early in my work, they had put
neck collars on some swans and geese. Later they even used radio collars on geese and
swans. Obviously, later in my career, computers became a very big thing. I can
remember when I first started at the Benson WMD everybody had a phone on their desk,
but the office only had two phone lines. We did not have a fax. We had a copy machine.
The clerk would try and do all of the copying one day a week because the machine stunk
so badly, and it was a two-step process. You had to use special pink paper. You had to
run a negative first, before you could run a positive. By the time I retired we had a Xerox
machine and I think we were making something like 2,000 copies a month. We had a fax
machine with it’s own designated line. The office had over eight phone lines coming in to
it.
MS. NORTON: How did you feel about the animals and waterfowl that you worked
with?
MR. BOBER: I enjoyed them. I spent career observing them and trying to learn about
the waterfowl; the ducks and other birds. I am still continuing to do that now that I am
retired. If you look around my yard, I have several birdhouses and feeders. I still have
nesting structures up for nesting waterfowl. I’ve got eight wood duck boxes up across the
front of my yard. I have nesting cylinders for mallards that is east of the house here.
Along the driveway there’s a big marsh. I have a floater up there that produces two
mallard nests and usually a goose nest every year.
MS. NORTON: So it’s a pretty positive attitude you have towards the birds!
MR. BOBER: Right! I enjoyed working with them.
MS. NORTON: What support did you receive locally, regionally, or federally when
you were in these jobs?
MR. BOBER: The regional office, when I started used to keep a pretty close eye on
you. They were very familiar with what you were doing on your station, especially at
Shiawassee. When I first came to the Benson WMD they also kept a close eye on us.
It wasn’t a “close eye” so much as they were very aware of what you were doing. It
seemed that as time went on, the regional office got more and more involved in paper
work and reports and let loose of the field more and more. The field operated much
more independently as I got closer to retirement. The oversight was much less.
MS. NORTON: How do you think the FWS was perceived by people outside of our
agency?
MR. BOBER: When I worked for the refuge in Michigan, we were looked on very
positively because everyone was interested in all of the waterfowl that used the refuge
and the deer hunt attracted a great many people. The boundary was established and
everybody knew exactly where the refuge was. There wasn’t much going on to generate
much adverse public reaction. When I came to the Benson WMD, the wetland program
was controversial and the regional office did not always understand the controversy that
took place out here. It was a program that was growing. We were continuously buying
acreage, which was controversial in the local community. Some of the neighboring
farmers felt that they were in competition with the government when we bought a piece
of property. The other thing that took place is that when the government originally
started the wetlands program they thought they were going to buy these acres out here
with the wetlands on them, throw some signs up around them and walk away. They
didn’t think they were going to have to do anything with them. Well, the upland had
been farmed so it needed to be seeded. We were in the middle of an intensively farmed
area. If you had any weeds on the federal property, it was very controversial because
they didn’t want weed seeds blowing over on to the private property. The neighbors
quite often wanted to drain their property. Since the government was buying wetlands,
which means you usually, had to lower the property and that was where the ditches
needed to go through in order to facilitate draining the neighbors. There was a lot of
controversy with the County Commissioners and the neighbors, there still is, up to this
day.
MS. NORTON: What projects were you involved in?
MR. BOBER: At Shiawassee we rebuilt a lot of the dikes on the refuge. One of the
very first people that I met from the regional office was an engineer named John
Ramsour who is a friend of mine to this day. I think that the first week I was on the
job, the Manager took the week off. He actually went to the regional office for part of
the week. I was there and John called up and said, “I’m coming out for a pre-construction
conference.” I said, “Okay”. The next think I did was to call Mr.
Greenwalt. I asked him, “What’s a pre-construction conference?” He said, “Don’t
worry about it, let Ramsour handle it.” They rebuilt most of the dikes on the refuge
were rebuilt at that time. Most of them were on the Shiawassee River. They prevented
the refuge from flooding. At Morris, I enjoyed working with engineers, so they had me
be the local coordinator. The Benson district became the Morris district and we built a
new office when they moved. It was just under a million dollars for when they rebuilt
the new office here in Morris. After we had been in the new office for about three
years, they built a new shop facility. That budget was just over a million dollars. I
spent a lot of time working with the regional office engineering staff and contractors on
those. There’s been many, many projects in the field that I have been involved with at
the Morris WMD, building over three hundred miles of boundary fence because we had
a lot of problems with the neighbors when we first got here. The old saying that “good
fences make good neighbors” is true, but it’s a very expensive way to deal with your
neighbors also.
MS. NORTON: What were the major issues that you had to deal with?
MR. BOBER: I spent most of my career at Morris, so when you ask about my career,
I think of Morris. One of the big issues, when I got to Morris was that when I first got
there, a lot of the boundaries were not posted. Nobody knew where the boundaries
were actually located. The first five to six years we spent over half of the time trying to
straighten out boundary problems; getting the neighbors to back off of the federal
property and get a good line established so that the neighbors knew the difference
between the federal property and their property. Basically what it was was that the
neighbors were farming the federal property because it didn’t cost them anything.
MS. NORTON: You were able to resolve those issues?
MR. BOBER: Right. There was a program called the Bicentennial Land Heritage
Program that gave refuges a lot of money. That’s what we used a lot of that money for,
to buy good equipment and to build a lot of fences and to seed a lot of acres.
MS. NORTON: Do you feel that that was the most pressing issue?
MR. BOBER: That was an issue for managing the property that the government
owned. But there was another issue that took place, and continues today. This is the
continual drainage and elimination of private wetlands. I don’t know exactly how you
can address that, but the government had messed around long enough and probably
ninety percent of the private wetlands in Minnesota have been drained. No matter
what the law says, they are continuing to drain, even today. Eventually, most of the
private wetlands in the state of Minnesota will be eliminated. The wildlife that depends
on those wetlands will cease to exist.
MS. NORTON: Were there any impediments to your jobs, or career?
MR. BO
Protecting Animals 36: Author Witi Ihimaera
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Unvorgreifliche Gedancken über die Berg-Höhle des ehmahligen Jäger-Schirms, oder jetzt so genandten Mummel-Lochs auf den Landeshutischen Buchen oder Bruch-Berge entwarf bey der feyerlichen Wiederholung des preißwürdigen Andenckens der Weyl. Hochgebohrnen Gräfin und Frau, Frau Anna Elisabeth vermählte Reichs-Gräfin von Hochberg, Freyin von Fürstenstein, gebohrner Reichs-Freyin von Zedlitz und Neukirch, Frauen der Herrschafft Rohnstock und Wernersdorf [et]c. [et]c. als einer besonders gnädigen Beförderern der Künste und Wissenschaften und geneigten Wohlthäterin der öffentl. Lehr-Verfassungen in hiesiger lateinischen und deutschen Schule durch eine Redübung der Verordnung gemäß an Deroselben Gedächtnis-Tage Elisabeth d. 19. Novemb. 1750. und ladet zugleich alle gnädige Gönner hohe und niedrige Freunde der Lehrenden und Lernenden Gesellschafft ... zu gütigster Anhörung derselben ein M. Ernst Daniel Adami. des lateinischen Schul-Collegii zu Landeshut Con-Rector und des Chori musici zugleich Director wie auch der Königlichen deutschen Gesellschafft zu Königsberg in Preussen ordentliches Mitglied
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No full textLage Mitte AugustVormarsch der Verbündeten auf Dresden bis zum 25. August und Stellung Napoleons am 25. August Abends 1:750 000Vormarsch gegen den Bober und Gefecht bei Löwenberg 1:1 000 000Schlacht bei Dresden am 26. August 1:100 000Bewegungen nach der Schlacht bei Dresden 1:750 000Frhr.von Freytag-LoringhovenZu Frhr.v.Freytag-Loringhoven's Heerführung Napoleon
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